Sponge checking in !

[DwayneEMTP]

...Other than taking a EMT class or joining a volunteer department, is there any other avenues available to private citizens

wanting to learn basic no-frills trauma skills. Please advise...

Brother, why are you so opposed to learning something other than quick snatches on the internet? I became a basic after seeing a woman get hit by a taxi and didn't know what to do. I hated being helpless. It took me 144hrs...how much easier would you like it to be? With your bags but no real knowledge and practice you will look good, but be nothing more than a pretty ornament when you're truly needed.

Also, you keep mentioning trauma. As a Marine, shouldn't you have had at least an introduction to trauma care?

I don't mean to piss on this thread, but something doesn't make sense. If you do get the 'big one!' that you keep talking about it's knowledge that is going to save the day, not fancy bags, and yet you keep reiterating that you are completely opposed to any type of formal education in the thing that you claim to hold so dear....What's up with that? I once took an astronomy class because I couldn't explain to my son the stars that he was pointing out in the night sky. Do you mean to tell me that you have less commitment to your current mission than that? By the way, the astraunomy class took more credit hours than becoming a basic.

If you want to truly be of help, get smarter, not more encumbered. You need to know triage techniques, how the systems will work so that you know how to support them, know what the priorities are in an emergency. Perhaps you believe that that is all a bunch of 'basket weaving' nonsense the rest of us chuckleheads weren't smart enough to know that we wouldn't need, but if so, you are terribly mistaken.

Despite your best intentions and what you may have seen on all of the sexy disaster shows, with your bags, and a head full of ignorance, you are simply another part of the problem, not part of the solution. All of that stuff may convince your neighbors and girlfriend that you are committed, but you will be seen as a poser and removed from the scene on any significant emergency the moment those that are truly committed arrive. You would be better off to get a good set of goggles, gloves, and a shovel so that you can help remove rubble.

You say that you don't want to be a 'hero' but the path you are now taking shows you to be no different than any other Ricky Rescue...wanting to have the fancy kit but can't be bothered to spend any quality time learning how to use it so as to do some REAL good as opposed to looking good for the newspaper. You can't learn this on the internet. Along with the knowledge MUST come practice, and practice, and practice. I get the feeling that you believe that practice is nonsense reserved for lesser men, such as myself. Again, you will find that you are sorely, possibly disastrously, mistaken when you want to act.

Perhaps this advice will get your panties in a bunch, and if so, well, that's a shame. You needed to hear the truth of the matter.

Do you want to do some real good when the shit hits the fan? Get yourself and some of your neighbors together and take an EMT B class. Set it up as a club and then get together at least once a month to practice triage, wound management, and EMS cooperation. You will then have at least basic skills, some idea how to work and communicate within the system so that resources can be deployed to you, and how to manage things as well as you can until help arrives. Right now you have a plan that will allow many, many people to suffer and die, not because help was impossible to receive, but because you'll convince them that you are that help...and you should be shamed by that.

If you are/were truly a Marine, then I thank you for your service, for keeping the boogy man out of my families back yard, and I will try and help you in any way that I know how, as will the others here. If you're lying about that....well....Yeah...never mind. My appologies if I've misread you, but I'm still having a hard time with a Marine looking for the 'no frills' trauma skills that are given to every single Marine that I've ever met...and I've met a few.

Dwayne

[tniuqs]

Take an EMT class. Seriously. If you have the opportunity a wilderness EMT component may be of interest after you've taken your EMT class.

If nothing else it's a start.

Yup good advice.

Join a local Volly SAR group, a ski patrol or a life guard First Aid also may be a consideration, gratus training, if you don't wish to go official EMT courses route as they prepare one for working on a rig not when the Zombies come.

ps Always a double tap !

My back country bible is by Wilkerson "Medicine for Mountaineering" is a good resource with kits lists in the back.

http://ebookee.org/James-Wilkerson-Medicine-for-Mountaineering-amp-Other-Wilderness-Activities_722226.html

[USMC_LB]

Brother, why are you so opposed to learning something other than quick snatches on the internet?

"You keep reiterating that you are completely opposed to any type of formal education"

I think you are taking me completely wrong... I am definitely ignorant about what all is available and where to exactly to start.

I have not stated anywhere that I am completely opposed to any type of formal education. In my original post I ended it by stating, "I joined here to learn as much as I can and to help get me pointed in the right direction for good civilian training."

Maybe jumping straight into a EMT class IS the best way to go. I don't know and trying to learn. I guess I was thinking I needed to start crawling before I start running wif da big dogs!

Also, you keep mentioning trauma. As a Marine, shouldn't you have had at least an introduction to trauma care?

You would be surprised about how BASIC we got back then. Its was basically unwrap this bandage, stick on the injury and apply pressure and YELL "CORPSMAN UP!!!" Oh, yeah, then there was the constant back and forth about if it is good or bad to use a tourniquet... We were never issued tourniquets. They tought us to use a web belt from the injured Marine or even communication cable. Nobody ever knew definitively and it just depended who was teaching the class. I am sure its alot better now since there is ALOT more experience to pass around. Seems like they have a good procedure now and a CAT is standard issue.

Everyone was pretty "green" with regards to actual combat experience during the 1st Gulf War.

With your bags but no real knowledge and practice you will look good, but be nothing more than a pretty ornament when you're truly needed.

"I don't mean to piss on this thread, but something doesn't make sense. If you do get the 'big one!' that you keep talking about it's knowledge that is going to save the day, not fancy bags."

"If you want to truly be of help, get smarter, not more encumbered."

"Despite your best intentions and what you may have seen on all of the sexy disaster shows, with your bags, and a head full of ignorance, you are simply another part of the problem, not part of the solution."

You say that you don't want to be a 'hero' but the path you are now taking shows you to be no different than any other Ricky Rescue...wanting to have the fancy kit but can't be bothered to spend any quality time learning how to use it so as to do some REAL good as opposed to looking good for the newspaper.

I don't know why you are preoccupied with bags Dwayne.

I only mentioned the kits I have and described my intentions with them only when someone asked . I didn't show off a contents list or brag about them. Heh, they are really nothing to brag about. One was given to me with a little damage (M3 medic bag) that I was able to repair with a little stitching and the backpack is a cheapo OD green "medical" backpack I won by designing a logo for a internet store. Believe me, it is not high speed... neither am I anymore. =)

You believe I am headed in the wrong direction. Believe me, I am not headed in any direction right at the moment. I am still trying to figure out which direction to go. I will listen.

"Perhaps you believe that that is all a bunch of 'basket weaving' nonsense the rest of us chuckleheads weren't smart enough to know that we wouldn't need..."

I get the feeling that you believe that practice is nonsense reserved for lesser men, such as myself.

Why you want to make it seem like I am belittling you or anybody here is beyond me. I am here to gain knowledge which helps remedy my ignorance. Keep the negative name calling to yourself and please don't include me in it.

I am here to learn, hence why I used the term "sponge". I am just not understanding the hostility. But I do appreciate any knowledge I can learn.

Even if it is learning exactly what class I need to start out with.

You can't learn this on the internet. Along with the knowledge MUST come practice, and practice, and practice.

I believe in this whole-heartedly. There is wisdom in the 7 Ps...

Proper Prior Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance ( it aint mine, I learned from from listening to someone else)

But I first need to learn PROPERLY....

You would be better off to get a good set of goggles, gloves, and a shovel so that you can help remove rubble.

A statement like that just seems arrogant and belittling... And truth is I can use a shovel, its definitely not underneath my station in life.

Perhaps this advice will get your panties in a bunch, and if so, well, that's a shame. You needed to hear the truth of the matter.

Nah, chatting on the Internetz is not going to get my panties in a wad... I am laid back kinda guy trying to state my intentions without getting dragged into keyboard battles. Your right, it would be a shame if someone got all bunched up over some advice...

Do you want to do some real good when the shit hits the fan? Get yourself and some of your neighbors together and take an EMT B class. Set it up as a club and then get together at least once a month to practice triage, wound management, and EMS cooperation. You will then have at least basic skills, some idea how to work and communicate within the system so that resources can be deployed to you, and how to manage things as well as you can until help arrives.

Tell me more about the EMT B class. Is this something that can be done while working a full time job at the same time?

Right now you have a plan that will allow many, many people to suffer and die, not because help was impossible to receive, but because you'll convince them that you are that help...and you should be shamed by that.

I do??? Dwayne, I am specifically here BECAUSE I don't have a plan. I am here for guidance. Please forgive my ignorance. I am not stupid, but completely ignorant on my path in regards to learning

The problem is I feel like I told someone I would like to drag-race but the people I'm talking too are telling me to jump straight in with both feet and get a $200,000 race car or just forget even trying. I have a full-time job and any training I take has to fit around that. I am not opposed to any training as you try to make it appear. But at the moment I don't have the time to start school...

If you are/were truly a Marine, then I thank you for your service, for keeping the boogy man out of my families back yard, and I will try and help you in any way that I know how, as will the others here. If you're lying about that....well....Yeah...never mind. My appologies if I've misread you, but I'm still having a hard time with a Marine looking for the 'no frills' trauma skills that are given to every single Marine that I've ever met...and I've met a few.

Dwayne

I appreciate your thanks but the young Marines (and Corpsman) out there right now are the ones who have earned our appreciation. I spent time in the desert but will be the first to say what I did was a ginger-bread cakewalk compared to what they are doing now. I always make a point to thank them and shake their hands.

Now, tell me more about this EMT B class you mentioned...

Thanks, LB

[DwayneEMTP]

...Other than taking a EMT class or joining a volunteer department, is there any other avenues available to private citizens

wanting to learn basic no-frills trauma skills. Please advise...

Fair enough brother, perhaps I misunderstood this statement and it colored the rest of my response. I read it to mean that this was not the kind of advice you were looking for, but can see now where I may have read it incorrectly. My apologies if that is the case.

I don't have the time to get more in depth now, but would be more than happy to talk to you about this at any length that makes you comfortable.

Thanks you for your service....And thanks for participating in these discussions.

Dwayne

[paramedicmike]

Other than taking a EMT class or joining a volunteer department, is there any other avenues available to private citizens

wanting to learn basic no-frills trauma skills. Please advise.

LB

No, there really aren't. An EMT class is going to be about as basic and no frills as you can get.

You asked what was available. Several people have agreed that this is probably what you'll need to get started. All of those people have been in this industry for years. Do you think we're going to steer you wrong?

[tniuqs]

Richard B the EMT, on 14 July 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

There's supposed to be a large inactive (?) fault line in the middle of the US ( New Madrid, MO).

Quote USMC_LB

bingo! thats the one!! Someone get Richard a prize.

<edit addition>

I live in a small rural county that sits next to a large metro county. Both counties are located on a large but long dormant fault line. We have had a few local public gatherings about disasters and disaster recovery/relief and honestly I was dis-heartened by their lack of prep and organization at the political level. The first-responders will have their hands full for a long time. My family and several of my friends families that are very close knit decided to do some preps. Nothing overboard by any means. but better than sitting around wondering why the govt. has not saved us yet...I am not trying to be the end all of all things medical. Not looking to perform surgeries, I just want to be prepared as much as I can

.

Dear Mike I would agree that the Wilderness EMT would be far more suitable prep from the OP's request for information but I would tend to disagree based the Haiti / Katrina / now presently the Libya experience, the EMT B does very little to prepare one for these catastrophic events, realistically.

If one truely wants to be prepared in event of a natural disaster as in a massive quake or hurricane or civil insurrection. When infrastructure is so damaged as to be absolutely ineffective and overwhelmed one should look far deeper than slap on a dressing or give O2 and boogie to like where? ... this when roads are impassable for weeks. Is an EMT B a good place to start no argument but if I am reading the intent of the request from a sponge well here is my 1.4 cents.

The immediate concerns are obtaining the essentials such as clean drinking water, shelter, broad spectrum antibiotic therapy and pain medication and again from Haiti experience, yes, how to amputate crushed limbs (when its black and smells like Blue Cheese) The biggest problem is actually locating ones zombie pack in the piles of debris so improvisation is a key factor in survival, I suspect that a Marine would have these skills already to some degree ingrained.

IMHO (speaking from a position of some experience in these humanitarian crisis's) the problem that always raises its very ugly head and the first thing that occurs is zero law and order (the Japan quake being the exception possibly due to hundreds of years of cultural conditioning ) BUT "Might does makes Right" hence my most serious reflection about the real Zombies because when the Military or a FEMA or UN gets involved is that its very late, and during my holiday in Louisiana this was proved that in spades.

Most seriously Walmart had superior skills in logistics and resupply and oddly enough NGO's get on the ground way faster than activating huge ops like Red Cross, UN or military.

[paramedicmike]

I get what you're saying, Squint. What I've taken from what this guy has posted is that he's looking for something to help himself and his family more than the community at large. Sure, from a large natural disaster standpoint EMT-B isn't going to suffice. Hell, I think we can both agree that under most professional responder situations EMT-B is woefully inadequate. But from a private citizen standpoint, which this guy likes to type, it should be more than adequate.

Judging by the background this guy is claiming, along with his putting together a medical pack (despite no medical training), I imagine he already has the remainder of the survival supplies you mentioned already gathered and ready to go.

[USMC_LB]

What I've taken from what this guy has posted is that he's looking for something to help himself and his family more than the community at large.

Definitely, I have no dreams of running around in a POV trying to be a EMT. Not just from a legal standpoint but more from an ethical view.

But from a private citizen standpoint, which this guy likes to type...

What else would you suggest I type?

I am not current active duty military, I am not law enforcement, I am not an EMT or any other medical trained profession and definitely do not want to be a poser (even though several have tried to hang that on me ).

You tell me what makes you feel better...

Judging by the background this guy is claiming, along with his putting together a medical pack (despite no medical training), I imagine he already has the remainder of the survival supplies you mentioned already gathered and ready to go.

You guys are ridiculous.... why are you taking whacks at me for putting some medical supplies in a backpack?

Would you stop quivering if I took it out and put it in a Wal-Mart sack? Maybe a beach-bag with long handles. or maybe I should call someone to come take possession my Ace bandages, dressings, 4x4s and all my Neosporin until I can get professionally checked out?

You act like I want to grab my "bags", commandeer a emergency vehicle and start treating the injured and all this while giving bad looks to all the medical professionals AND getting lots of fame from TV and newspaper coverage!

Why does just the simple act of someone trying to gain some knowledge and advice automatically get ya'lls hackles up?

C'mon guys, the passive-agressive jabs are not productive.

Yes! I have no medical training.

and finally, yes, we do have some provisions set aside (1-3 weeks worth of food and a weeks worth of water if used little) but by no means do we have a treasure trove of Super Survival Supplies in a underground bunker. But we are a little better prepared than most.

Now, after all your back and forth, not one person attempted to answer my main question from my last post...

Tell me more about the EMT B class. Is this something that can be done while working a full time job at the same time?

LB

[DwayneEMTP]

Yeah, man, I'm not getting the wanker vibe from you...But something that you really must understand here..Someone coming here and asking the type questions that you were asking and them NOT being a 'wacker' (wannnabe hero without having any interest in education) is about as likely as...say...spitting into a truck full of Marines and expecting them to say thank you. In fact, your odds might be better with the Marines. It just so rarely happens that we lose sight sometimes that it's even possible.

We do get tired of people that want to carry all of the sexy stuff they see the bullshit heros carry on TV, but don't want a personal investment. I misunderstood that to be your position. Last apology for that. Sorry.

The EMTB class will run from around 120-160 hours, give or take, including some small shifts on an ambulance and maybe in the ER. Both of those will likely help you with what you're looking for.

The classes often run 3-4hrs/night twice a week. Mine was Tuesdays (1800-2200)and Thursdays and all day on Saturdays (0800-1630). I took mine while working well over full time at my regular job, and I had a lot of fun with it. I truly believe that this investment of time and money (The GI bill will probably cover it?) is exactly what you're looking for, and I also believe that it will change the way that you plan for a disaster as well as make you much more valuable to your family and neighbors as well as an asset able to interface with EMS when they finally do get there. That sounds like what you are asking for, yeah?

It will teach you basic emergency care from the bottom up (hopefully) and you will learn many, many things more important than trauma care. How do you know if your neighbors gas line broke and he's been poisoned by the gas? What should you do? How should people breath when they're unwell? What do you do if they don't? What should you do with someone unresponsive but breathing in the middle of 20 other people just like that? How much blood loss is to much? And a very important skill...Triage. How to give the most help to the most number.

There will likely be modules explaining how the emergency disaster plans work, and how you can volunteer within them even if you'd like to. It will cover allergic reactions, snake bites, trauma/broken bone management, etc, etc.

Sorry brother, I've been away from Basic education for quite a while and my perspective is queered. Those are the things that come immediately to mind but I will be more than happy to answer any other questions that you might think of, though there are many here that can guide you on this better than I.

Thanks for hanging around man...

Dwayne

[paramedicmike]

What else would you suggest I type?

Type what you like. Just as I will. Understand that you may occasionally get called on what you type. Just as I will. It's happened before. I'm sure it'll happen again. The difference here, so far, is that I don't get bent out of shape over it.

Take it for what it is. It's a comment on a phrase you presented more than once. So what?

...definitely do not want to be a poser (even though several have tried to hang that on me ).

Perhaps. But if you think I was going down that road you're very much mistaken.

Dwayne addressed this a bit: One thing you need to understand is that you're not the first guy to come here asking the questions you asked. Every single one of those conversations resulted in a meltdown on behalf of the OP pretty quickly. They claimed the same motivations as you but had the glory stars of whackerdom in their eyes.

You may be new with the best of intentions, but from our standpoint if it walks like a duck... well... you know.

You tell me what makes you feel better...

You do whatever the hell you want to do, my friend. This is the internet. I don't know you. You don't know me. The difference between us seems to be that so far you're the only one taking this personally.

You guys are ridiculous.... why are you taking whacks at me for putting some medical supplies in a backpack?

I think you're misinterpreting things just a bit. Like I said, your request is an odd one in line with other oddballs we've had pop up here from time to time. If it turns out that you're not an oddball we'll figure it out eventually.

You act like I want to grab my "bags", commandeer a emergency vehicle and start treating the injured and all this while giving bad looks to all the medical professionals AND getting lots of fame from TV and newspaper coverage!

Wait until you take your EMT class. I think once you start your class, think of your comment and what we've said so far, you'll understand where we're coming from.

As a Marine, you're a professional, right? You don't like whackers and wannabe-s, right? The same goes for us. Our disadvantage is that you really haven't given us enough to tell if you're a whacker wannabe or a professional trying to do right by his family.

Why does just the simple act of someone trying to gain some knowledge and advice automatically get ya'lls hackles up?

Every single one of the responses you've received in this thread has been helpful to you in one way, shape or form. If you think our hackles are up you haven't seen anything yet.

and finally, yes, we do have some provisions set aside (1-3 weeks worth of food and a weeks worth of water if used little) but by no means do we have a treasure trove of Super Survival Supplies in a underground bunker. But we are a little better prepared than most.

There is nothing wrong with this. That you're a little sensitive to the idea that someone was able to guess your level of preparedness judging by the questions you were asking is telling, though.

Tell me more about the EMT B class. Is this something that can be done while working a full time job at the same time?

LB

An EMT class can easily be completed while working full time. It's usually a couple of hours a night a couple of times per week. The material is not rocket science. Check with your local community college or volunteer rescue squad for more information.

Stick around. Read the discussions. If you pick the right ones you'll see some real hot and heavy debate with the occasional meltdown. You'll even learn a bit, too. And I think the more you learn, both from reading here and meeting people in the EMT class you'll be taking, our responses will make a lot more sense.