Bill would allow TEMS providers to be armed in OH

[tniuqs]

The legislation is not for every Tom, Dick, and Harry EMT. It is for those, who by job description, necessity, and intent go where the shooting is. And before anyone puffs their chest out to talk about the shitty neighborhoods they ride the ambulance into, it is only for those assigned to a tactical team and on mission.

So would the medics primary role be an active operator or just defensive back up ?

Have you adopted the "rush" the shooter the 3 man approach or remain with containment in a mass cas event ?

Later entry: Would for a rapid response, the Ambulance have a firearm on board or have to be issued on scene ?

Edited July 26, 2011 by tniuqs

[Dustdevil]

So Dust are you a proponent that every EMT and Paramedic should be armed ?

Absolutely not. In fact, I am a proponent of only ME being armed. I don't trust anyone else.

I was merely pointing out the obvious fallacy of North's theory.

[BushyFromOz]

303 Le Enfield its standard issue in every cabin.

And a canadian made (long branch) made one at that.

[tniuqs]

Absolutely not. In fact, I am a proponent of only ME being armed. I don't trust anyone else.

I was merely pointing out the obvious fallacy of North's theory.

The questions I posed in a post prior, in light of very recent events in Norway. I have often thought just what would "I" do if this happened in my community, clearly not from a Hero Headline grab. I am not a HERO in fact I have a yellow strip permanently tattooed up my back.

But a very realistic position in my community the LEO are far, far , far away. It will be over before they can even get dispatched. SO if I had knowledge of a similar situation, do I risk getting riddled with Tac Team lead and causing more of a complication, OR grab a hunting rifle and go and eliminate the fucking vermin myself ? Seriously these mass shootings of the innocents make me just fucking furious, killing innocent kids proves what ? just what in their heads ? do they think they can accomplish anything positive ? Norway needs the death penalty reinstituted as does Canada IMHO not as a deterant just a cost effective means of eliminating a cancer from society, hanged criminals just do not make a lot of headlines when they are ded.

These acts define INSANITY quite clearly, in fact the "goal" of these cold blooded murderers most typically polarizes against the supposed goal. The police (generally speaking) and in this Norway incident are clearly not prepared nor can they predict or even identify these loon's.

Is it time to go back to wild west vigilantism ?

That said and at the risk of being on another "Watch List" (well just another one ) Sorry zilla this is a bit off topic but I am one that truely believes that multiculturalism is a huge failure (with present immigration laws and tolerance that is only one sided) the proof is rather clear I believe. I live just north of a huge First Nations community the segregation I observe daily and based on "Special Rights" will continue to contribute to the violence, crime, gang warfare, drug abuse this observation is based on decades of interactions IMHO.

My morphing philosophy in this:

That man has not progressed enough we are delusional to believe that we are little more than naked ape's, like it or not we are extremely "tribal" and the fact organised religions are the root of all evil, IMHO, proven over and over. Would it be great if we could get along without killing each other ah utopia what a concept, but its just not the reality.

cheers

[Richard B the EMT]

Would for a rapid response, the Ambulance have a firearm on board or have to be issued on scene ?

That's my question in different wording.

[MedicNorth]

Ah, Dust...

It seems that most of our opposite polar discussions revolve around firearms...

There are no holes in my theory.. I do NOT want to pack a gun as I go about my duties. Other than the fear that I might shoot my foot off, I have no interest in training to kill people. I would much prefer to allow those who are trained and motivated to make a scene safe for me. As far as most dangerous situations occurring unexpectedly, you are correct. This is not confined to EMS, though.... if we are to be armed to "protect ourselves" in our work, the same should be done for everybody, including postal workers, teachers, social workers, ER nurses... well, you get the picture.

I know there are dangers in what we do. Most of them can be avoided by using common sense, as Squint so aptly pointed out. Those that can't, well, the odds of me being able to forget my patient and shoot first are not so great, especially when the other guy has a gun and is wanting to get the first bullet into me before I blow a hole in him.

If there are services out there supporting this Militia form of EMS, I wish them luck. I wont be working for them.

[tniuqs]

HAY ...Hold urine horses .. don't put me in the middle of a two way shooting range with North and Dust.

I would just be Dust's collateral damage

[DFIB]

I like the idea of medics attached to tactical teams being armed. It only seems reasonable since they could be in situations where they would have to defend themselves or their patient. A law that protects them is promising. Personally I wish CHL holders could have similar protection although it seems very unlikely anywhere. CHL holding school teachers have tried to be able to carry to work and failed except in one case that I can remember. (I can't remember where but I think it was in Texas). The topic gives much food for thought.

[FormerEMSLT297]

Fist of all, you would be coverd TEMS stands for Tactical Emergency Medical Support....... Not Service, because we support the team.

A newer term coming into use now it TMP or TTP Tactical Medical or Team Provider. This helps eliminate confusion when you have an EMT in tactical gear wearing a patch that says "MEDIC" on it.

The County and even most of the state that that I ride in, Maryland, refers to all ALS providers as "medics" so when we show up and get a brief from the "MEDIC" some do not even realize that person is an EMT-B.

Secondly, in regard to the L word, Volunteers are considered "employees" and would be protected when they are riding or providing care to patients. The term "employee" does not in any way apply to only people who are being compensated for their work. This has been a long standing court decision, and there should be nothing to fear with regard to liability, IMHO.

As for tactical medics carrying, I have been on teams where they carry,and teams where they do not, and there are arguments on both sides of the coin.

If you are going to ask you team to arm you, or your team is thing about arming it's medics, then I think the team needs to have a sit down and discuss the pros and cons of it.

My personal opinion is that I like the ability to defend myself, if I ever enter a hot zone and get dropped off, or split from the team.

PS CONTOMS CLASSES are back up, next one starts Oct 24. 2011. I will post the new link in the Training section.

[DFIB]

Other than the fear that I might shoot my foot off, I have no interest in training to kill people

See the inherent problem is that we doubt "other" EMTs judgement and ability to handle a firearm in a rescue situation. There are many who carry all the time and would not shoot themselves in the foot.. Most good citizens who carry don't train to kill others but to preserve their own wellbeing. I have no problem with any trained, licensed person carrying at any time. I am also sure that EMS services will probably never let non tactical EMTs carry.

Is it time to go back to wild west vigilantism ?

Defending yourself and the innocent is not vigilantism. It is humane. It is just. If someone had a weapon in Norway or Virginia of Columbine the death count would possibly have been diminished. Who knows maby the bad guy wins, but at least the prospective victims have a chance. Just because a man is armed doesn't make him a wolf, more like a guard dog in my oppinion but he definitely ceases to be a sheep

This is not confined to EMS, though.... if we are to be armed to "protect ourselves" in our work, the same should be done for everybody, including postal workers, teachers, social workers, ER nurses... well, you get the picture.

Why not let law abiding citizens who are licensed to carry do so in their work place. Are americans constitutional rights suspended soley because they choose to be postal workers, students, teachers, social workers, nurses or EMT's?

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