When is an EMT obligated to call Police?

[scriptguy]

Hello,

I'm a screenwriter, and I was wondering under what circumstances an EMT is obligated to call police? If a person was obviously impaled, or stabbed would that require a police call? Do victims ever lie to EMT's to avoid the police?

Thank You

Scriptguy

[croaker260]

Good Question. The answer is "Adult Diapers" (AKA " It DEPENDS" Get it...Depends? I crack myself up...)

Anyway...

It varies by state to state law, but generally every state has SOME version of law that requires mandatory reporting in the following cases:

• 
  
  
• Animal Bites
  
• New Onset STD's (applies to all healthcare providers, but this is seldom if ever a concern for EMS)
  
• New Onset of certain highly infectious Diseases, i.e. Tuberculosis, meningitis, anthrax.
  
• Gunshot wounds of any type
  
• Puncture wounds and blunt force trauma believed to have occured in an assault.
  
• Injuries believed to have been encountered during a criminal activity
  
• ANY injuries believed to have occurred in domestic violence, or any injuries or illness believed to be the result of abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) or neglect (physical or medical) to a vulnerable population group (i.e. the elderly, disabled, or children)
  

Now a comment on mandatory reporting: Each state has different definitions of who and what is a mandatory reporter (EMS is usually included in some form or another) as well as who you report to. Depending on the situation you would report (or in some states causing to be reported is acceptable ...in others it is not) to either law enforcement (in Idaho defined as a "Peace Officer" - specific legal definition outlined in code) or the health/social services Department (s) (child and elderly protection falls under this in Idaho), or BOTH.

Most laws require reporting within a certain period, typically " as soon as practical" with in 24 to 72 hours though the actual wording may vary by state. So, if the patient is already being transport, an EMT may decide to "report" later (as in when the patient isn’t around and will get pissed off) when it is safer to do so if he is already getting transported.

This does not cover situations where EMS will request law enforcement for safety reasons. For example, if a patient is intixicated, drunk, agitated, or otherwise goofy and it makes the EMS crew uncomfortable, Law Enforcemnt may be called.

I hope this helps.

Do victims ever lie to EMT's to avoid the police?

All the time. Sometimes the initial cal for dispatch will be some a benign complaint (i.e. chest pain) when it is drug related just to avoid a law enforcement dispatch.

Usually a seasoned medic has a pretty good BS detector though, and we can usually tell when a story doesnt match the injury pattern.

That said, patients can be pretty creative in their BS.

[scriptguy]

Wow thank you for the thoughtful detailed response. This helps me a lot.

[chappy]

Do victims ever lie to EMT's to avoid the police?

Something like this:

911 operator: "911, what's your emergency"

Victim: "Umm, my baby-daddy need a ambulance ... he really hurtin in his belly."

911 operator and victim have a dialog about the location, onset, etc. All the while, the caller never reveals the true nature of the call.

As short time later

911 Operator / Dispatch: "Medic 18, county, prepare to copy emergency traffic..."

Medic 18: "County, 18, send the call..."

Dispatch: "512, respond to {insert address here}, report of sickness. Patient complains of severe, sudden onset abdominal pain pain."

Medic 18: "County, 18, en route"

Few minutes later

Medic 18: "County, 18, show us on scene"

Few minutes later...

Medic 18: "County, 18, please respond law enforcement, emergency traffic, reference a stabbing. The suspect is still on scene and is not allowing us to access the patient."

Dispatch: "Medic 18, understand you need law enforcement reference a stabbing, They have been notified."

Supervisor: "18, Medic 1, are you still on scene?"

Medic 18: "Medic 1, affirmative, armed suspect is not allowing us to gain access to our vehicle."

Law enforcement arrives, tazes the suspect. We find our patient whose severe, sudden onset abdominal pain was the result of a stabbing to the upper right abdomen.

Yes, it really did happen.

To answer your question ... yes, patients lie to avoid law enforcement.

They also lie to manipulate the system in an attempt to get priority in the ER when they have a headache, tummy-ache, in-grown toenail, etc.

Do victims ever lie to EMT's to avoid the police?

Something like this:

911 operator: "911, what's your emergency"

Victim: "Umm, my baby-daddy need a ambulance ... he really hurtin in his belly."

911 operator and victim have a dialog about the location, onset, etc. All the while, the caller never reveals the true nature of the call.

As short time later

911 Operator / Dispatch: "Medic 18, county, prepare to copy emergency traffic..."

Medic 18: "County, 18, send the call..."

Dispatch: "512, respond to {insert address here}, report of sickness. Patient complains of severe, sudden onset abdominal pain pain."

Medic 18: "County, 18, en route"

Few minutes later

Medic 18: "County, 18, show us on scene"

Few minutes later...

Medic 18: "County, 18, please respond law enforcement, emergency traffic, reference a stabbing. The suspect is still on scene and is not allowing us to access the patient."

Dispatch: "Medic 18, understand you need law enforcement reference a stabbing, They have been notified."

Supervisor: "18, Medic 1, are you still on scene?"

Medic 18: "Medic 1, affirmative, armed suspect is not allowing us to gain access to our vehicle."

Law enforcement arrives, tazes the suspect. We find our patient whose severe, sudden onset abdominal pain was the result of a stabbing to the upper right abdomen.

Yes, it really did happen.

To answer your question ... yes, patients lie to avoid law enforcement.

They also lie to manipulate the system in an attempt to get priority in the ER when they have a headache, tummy-ache, in-grown toenail, etc.

Do victims ever lie to EMT's to avoid the police?

Something like this:

911 operator: "911, what's your emergency"

Victim: "Umm, my baby-daddy need a ambulance ... he really hurtin in his belly."

911 operator and victim have a dialog about the location, onset, etc. All the while, the caller never reveals the true nature of the call.

As short time later

911 Operator / Dispatch: "Medic 18, county, prepare to copy emergency traffic..."

Medic 18: "County, 18, send the call..."

Dispatch: "512, respond to {insert address here}, report of sickness. Patient complains of severe, sudden onset abdominal pain pain."

Medic 18: "County, 18, en route"

Few minutes later

Medic 18: "County, 18, show us on scene"

Few minutes later...

Medic 18: "County, 18, please respond law enforcement, emergency traffic, reference a stabbing. The suspect is still on scene and is not allowing us to access the patient."

Dispatch: "Medic 18, understand you need law enforcement reference a stabbing, They have been notified."

Supervisor: "18, Medic 1, are you still on scene?"

Medic 18: "Medic 1, affirmative, armed suspect is not allowing us to gain access to our vehicle."

Law enforcement arrives, tazes the suspect. We find our patient whose severe, sudden onset abdominal pain was the result of a stabbing to the upper right abdomen.

Yes, it really did happen.

To answer your question ... yes, patients lie to avoid law enforcement.

They also lie to manipulate the system in an attempt to get priority in the ER when they have a headache, tummy-ache, in-grown toenail, etc.

[paramedicmike]

Geez, Chappy. A simple, "Yes. People lie all the time." would've sufficed.

[chappy]

Sorry, folks... I'm not sure why that posted like that.

[Bernhard]

I'm a screenwriter, and I was wondering under what circumstances an EMT is obligated to call police?

Generally we're the "patient's attorney" and almost in any case bound to professional secrecy, if it's not the patients intention to get police involved.

Naturally, if the EMS provider has to be protected for some reason, it's allowed.

If there's an ongoing crime/danger (i.e. an attacker still attacking others) most laws allow, even force anyone (including medical personnel) to call police.

Details then depend on the local (state) law and protocol: minors, drug use, specific crimes, potential high risk areas, ...

If a person was obviously impaled, or stabbed would that require a police call?

If the patient is unconscious enough to not making clear that he/she doesn't want the police we could assume that his intentions are to get police involved as soon as possible to protect his rights (at least by catching the offender). So, in such a case we're on the safe side if we call police, because in a normal situation this is what a "normal" victim would have want.

Do victims ever lie to EMT's to avoid the police?

Yes, mainly because movies tell them, that if there is a crime involved, police has to be called and/or given detailed information by the EMS staff.

However, in most cases that's not the case and EMS staff even could be prosecuted for denying the patient's non disclosure rights.

Plus: it's not very interesting to us "who hits whom and why" (as long as our scene safety is not involved), but we need "how, where and with what" to provide help.

To me, in this context, most common would be the following dialogue:

Me: "Did you drink/take drugs?"

Patient: "Ummm....ahhh...hmmmm...."

Me: "Tell me, I need it to get an idea what's your medical problem. I'm not allowed to disclose it to police or your parents, anyway!"

Patient: "OK, <beverage/drug list>".

Me: "Whow. Anything else?"

Patient: "Oh yes...<additional beverage/drug list>, you should try, it really kicks!"

Me: "Ummm....ahhh...hmmmm...."

Good that they still believe us more than you.

Check the topic "Do you have a duty to report ?", there was a similar discussion with some interesting view points.

Hope this helps.

[HERBIE1]

Some locales have more instances that require law enforcement or other agency notification. If a person gets injured in a public area- tripped on a sidewalk, fell on the street, etc- a police report must be filed- of course to combat the probable lawsuit for an improperly maintained street, sidewalk.

[Dustdevil]

Reporting is very rarely an issue for EMS. If it hasn't already been reported to police when we were dispatched (after all, 911 takes the calls for both of us), then the hospital will be notifying them when the patient arrives. I can't remember many times in 35 years that I actually had to pick up a phone to notify PD. If I did, it was usually because I needed cops on-scene ASAP, not because I felt some duty to spend a quarter.

What I am saying is that, aside from some really unusual circumstances, it would be a relatively unbelievable scene for professional EMS to call and report a suspicion. Of course, "professional" does not include small-town volunteers, or other such whackers.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Dustdevil

[tniuqs]

Hello,

Do victims ever lie to EMT's to avoid the police?

Thank You

Scriptguy

No never, that wasn't Me, I only had 2 beers, No that's not my 8 ball, No I don't do drugs, I didn't see a thing, I slipped on a banana peel and fell on that kitchen knife.

Bhwahhaaha.