When is an EMT obligated to call Police?

[Richard B the EMT]

Do victims ever lie to EMT's?

I refer you to a colleague scriptwriter, specifically, for the show, "House". Dr. House continually says "People Lie". Dr. House is correct!

I worked the first 11 years of my 25 in municipal EMS in the communications center, nowadays usually referred to as "EMD" (Emergency Medical Dispatch). If I had a dollar for every time a caller stated the patient was in cardiac arrest, in an attempt to get an ambulance quicker, perhaps I would have retired sooner. I even had one guy say HE was having a cardiac arrest!

They'll say Cardiac Arrest for a quicker EMS response, or say "Shots being Fired" to illicit a rapid LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) response.

As for lying to avoid LEO involvement? I had a minor aged female knock on a first floor apartment door to request EMS, claiming a severe abdominal pain preventing her going upstairs to her own apartment. On arrival, we found the cause was, she'd been shot, small caliber handgun, by her boyfriend to the right upper quadrant of the abdomen, but didn't want to get her boyfriend in trouble. Her father's involvement, in the presence of the NYPD detectives, got the truth out, and I'm glad they got to the boyfriend before "Daddy" did, preventing a possible other patient.

[tniuqs]

Dear Scriptguy:

Firstly we prefer the term Patient's, even though one may be a victim its less ghoulish to my way of thinking .. I digress.

On a serious note, at first I thought you were actually kidding. It is in fact just human nature when something very serious has occurred and during most criminal activities that people do not tell the truth, possibly an attempt to protect themselves or others, especially in domestic assaults with weapons.

This could be a result of fear for possible repercussions down the road for that individual or in many cases that I have come across to protect the ones that they believe "love them" as in domestic or child abuse. In passing the most difficult to deal with as EMS providers, not to become emotionally charged oneself, possibly resulting in losing focus from a medical perspective. Rape or attempted Rape (of women or men) comes to mind and has not been mentioned thus far, signs and symptoms, body language are a big "tell".

As experienced EMS providers most of us develop reliable BS indicator's or when spider senses are a tingling. We do learn to trust these instincts but its just not our job to discern right or wrong or who is telling the truth or who is not. It's our JOB to deal with the physical injuries (primarily) and transport to facilities that are better equipped to provide definitive treatment or get to the bottom of it all.

You can bet your typewriter that when giving report to RN or MD that we put in our 2 cents.

In most "states" or "provinces" or "territories" there is powerful legislation in place for mandatory reporting of any suspected criminal activity, knives, guns, axes, hammers, chainsaws or whatever. This actually protects us as EMS providers. WE (generally speaking) really dislike spending our "days off" in courtrooms .

Most operations I have worked for have a code "word" and its very easy during a normal conversation to hit the PTT (Push to Talk button) on radio, use a 10 "code" as an example 10-4 Alpha (Firearms) or 10-4 Bravo (Knife) to request Law Enforcement STAT, this keeps the patients or bystanders uninformed as to a request to dispatch and a good dispatcher will NOT request any details so that our safety is not compromised, as that could lead to life threatening situation damn quick ! Dispatch would just confirm as in: Unit 362 "copy alpha / bravo"

As Dustdevil eluded the 911 operators / dispatchers themselves are pretty astute at picking up that there is a "bit more" to the story than just a stuck fart.

hope that helps.

cheers

edit for "spelling" again.

Edited July 22, 2011 by tniuqs

[FireMedicChick164]

Patients lie to us and the police all the time! They like to change their stories when they get to the ER and tell the triage nurse something totally different to make us look like dummies too.

Here in my district in NY the police are dispatched to the call AND we are dispatched to the call. Most of the time they get their first so they can advise of any issues prior to our arrival.

[Richard B the EMT]

Here in my district in NY the police are dispatched to the call AND we are dispatched to the call. Most of the time they get their first so they can advise of any issues prior to our arrival.

FireMedicChick164 is in a county relatively close to mine. However, were PD to respond to ALL our calls in my 5 counties of NYC, NY, they'd never be able to get to all the calls that only involved PD, just due to call volume of the Municipal 9-1-1 EMS.

[emtinks]

What about living situations? Are we bound to report health issues if the living conditions are questionable?

[Chief1C]

I feel obligated to call the police, any time that traffic needs to be directed.

[Richard B the EMT]

Back to living situations:

If we feel the patient is living in dangerous conditions, such as no heat in midwinter, I might ask the Emergency Room crew at the recieving hospital to get someone from Social Services involved.

On the matter of "EMS Crew Safety":

Many LEO and EMS radio systems have automatic signalling devices embedded in their portables. they transmit, the radio, and the unit assigned that radio, come up on the Computer Assisted Dispatch display screen at the communications center. Push a particular button on the portable, the unit ID shows on the screen, a different color indicating emergency signal activation, along with an audible alarm. Depending on agency policies, LEOs get dispatched, or dispatchers ask the unit if they have an emergency. If requested, or if no verbal response, LEOs get requested on the forthwith.

They even have an "app" on some cheap kid's radios, hit the button, an emergency audible signal is transmitted, and anything audible near the radio also gets transmitted for the next 30 seconds. (I own a set, cost me $50, in the General Mobile Radio Service)

[croaker260]

Regarding Living Conditions: (In my state:) We are required under statute to report if we think it is related to neglect/exploitation (i.e. elder abuse) . We have an ethical obligation and immunity under statute to report other horrid conditions, even if they are not related to neglect/exploitation by another.

HIPAA does not restrict this due to that HIPAA does not prevent such reporting.

[Arctickat]

For those of you who are required by law, statute, or other legal requirement, could you post a link to the law that supports your statement? It may be an interesting read.

Many LEO and EMS radio systems have automatic signalling devices embedded in their portables.

If the portable is in range to actually transmit, and then you still have a wait for the police to show up. In our most risky location it's a 20 minute wait.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Arctickat

[Richard B the EMT]

Arctickat, I must presume your area is wide open spaces, like either farmland or wilderness (or equivalent), but I know you'll correct me if I am inaccurate on that. Most of my entries refer to responses in NYC, a city of 8,000,000. All FDNY EMS portable radios work through a repeater network, so a call put on the air from Far Rockaway would be heard by all on the Queens East frequency, even those listening in from 50 miles distance (or more).

Commenting in general, sometimes the delay between parking in front of the patient's building, and getting to the patient's side, or the LEOs getting upstairs to the crews, is waiting for an elevator in a 30 or more story building. In my service area, the tallest building is "only" 25 stories tall.

The tallest buildings are libraries, due to all the stories...lol.