Paramedic Practitioner: Is this where we should be heading?

[chbare]

We cannot advance until we focus on and correct our fundamental problems first. In my four years of teaching I've yet to see anatomy and physiology, English and college level mathematics required for paramedic education in my area. Through hard work and support, I am at the cusp of seeing this occur. Again, we are struggling to even establish ourselves as a profession and we are talking about going up against some of the most powerful lobby groups in nation? Nursing could destroy us. Sorry bro, as I stated earlier, following the failure of the Red River Project in the 90's, fundamental education issues in EMS has changed very little compared to other countries with robust education in place and relatively independent practitioners.

CCEMTP is a 100 hour curriculum. I'm not sure you can make a competent critical care provider in 100 hours.

Also remember the PA was derived from military medics (mainly corpsman who served in Vietnam) and is a direct descendent from prehospital medicine.

[triemal04]

This is going in circles, and nothing new is being said.

It's very simple, so let me break it down. The concept of a widespread (because that is what's needed, something that is happening nationally and not just in one or two places) medical professional who provides primary care in the field by going to the patients homes, while needed, would, and will take a huge amount of effort to implement. I don't think you understand how much.

The idea that a brand new type of medical provider can just be created out of thin air, and yes, a "paramedic practitioner" would be creating something new, not extending a paramedic's scope in whatever time fram you envision (I'm thinking a relatively short one, but correct me if I'm wrong) is ridiculous. Do you know what it would take to set up a real system to teach people and educate them to the proper level? And then get them credentialed? And accepted for billing purposes? Prescribing purposes? Ordering purposes? Admitting purposes? I'm sorry, but it won't happen. Period. The sheer amount of work that would take is huge. While 1 or 2 areas MIGHT be able to set up something in their own locality, it would never extend beyond, and really, would be half-assed. Period.

You are talking about creating a new level of paramedic. We can't even agree on what it takes education-wise to be an EMT, let alone a paramedic. Do you really think that it is in anyway realistic to think that a real, functional and properly taught (read taught to a level that will be accepted by other medical fields) providedr can be created on a national scale by the fucked up system we have now?

If you really want what is best for the patient, and best for the healthcare system, put away ego and dreams and accept that, while this is a appropriate and very doable course of action, it won't be what you want.

And quit worrying about PA's "taking over." When you actually consider what you are saying it's silly.

That being said, if you don't want a real primary care provider, but something like what is being done allready then it is a different story. If you just want someone who does basic wellness checks, helps figure out what meds to taken, when to take them, helps with making and getting to appointments and the like, that is a different story.

Edited March 26, 2013 by triemal04

[Bieber]

This is going in circles, and nothing new is being said.

It's very simple, so let me break it down. The concept of a widespread (because that is what's needed, something that is happening nationally and not just in one or two places) medical professional who provides primary care in the field by going to the patients homes, while needed, would, and will take a huge amount of effort to implement. I don't think you understand how much.

Yes, please, break it down for me so that I can try to understand. Seriously? Don't be condescending, I'm not an idiot and I understand the breadth of what I am suggesting. At no point did I suggest that something to the extent of a PA would be rolling out tomorrow.

The idea that a brand new type of medical provider can just be created out of thin air, and yes, a "paramedic practitioner" would be creating something new, not extending a paramedic's scope in whatever time fram you envision (I'm thinking a relatively short one, but correct me if I'm wrong) is ridiculous. Do you know what it would take to set up a real system to teach people and educate them to the proper level? And then get them credentialed? And accepted for billing purposes? Prescribing purposes? Ordering purposes? Admitting purposes? I'm sorry, but it won't happen. Period. The sheer amount of work that would take is huge. While 1 or 2 areas MIGHT be able to set up something in their own locality, it would never extend beyond, and really, would be half-assed. Period.

Your opinion. Again, I never said I believed or wanted any of this to happen overnight. Baby steps.

You are talking about creating a new level of paramedic. We can't even agree on what it takes education-wise to be an EMT, let alone a paramedic. Do you really think that it is in anyway realistic to think that a real, functional and properly taught (read taught to a level that will be accepted by other medical fields) providedr can be created on a national scale by the fucked up system we have now?

Uh, yes? Not to the extent of what it should be or could be, no. But other communities have already proven that the concept, even in a small, tamed format is possible.

If you really want what is best for the patient, and best for the healthcare system, put away ego and dreams and accept that, while this is a appropriate and very doable course of action, it won't be what you want.

And quit worrying about PA's "taking over." When you actually consider what you are saying it's silly.

Since I hadn't "actually" been considering what I was saying, I went back and "actually" considered it and suddenly discovered it's silly. Takeovers never happen in health care or EMS. Thanks for showing me the light! =)

That being said, if you don't want a real primary care provider, but something like what is being done allready then it is a different story. If you just want someone who does basic wellness checks, helps figure out what meds to taken, when to take them, helps with making and getting to appointments and the like, that is a different story.

It's a little bit more than that, but yeah, for the most part that's a good step for now. I never suggested that we go from where we are directly into a PA or NP equivalent level.

Thanks for the debate, those of you who remained civil about it. I'm done with this thread for now.

[scubanurse]

http://www.western-ortho.com/Our-Physicians/Our-Physician-Assistants.aspx

3/4 of the PA's on this website alone state a start in EMS...