Air ambulances should carry blood, says B.C. woman

[tniuqs]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/07/18/bc-air-ambulance-transfusion.html?ref=rss

"[Jen] was the first person, they believe, in the world that received a blood transfusion by a paramedic, in the air," said Angie Condon, Jen's mother.

What a crock of crap, Alberta Air Ambulance has done this for 15 years "0" pos, "O" neg, 25 % Albumin and Pentaspan .... ROTFLMAO.

but good PR for the aussies ...

What about medivac from FOB in the sandbox ?

I think CBC needs a serious edjumication, and BCAS needs a good bitch slapping.

[BEorP]

Ha. I love how they quote the guy from Ambulance Victoria as if he speaks for some unified Australian ambulance system that doesn't exist. CareFlight in Queensland had blood before Victoria did if they just got it this (Northern Hemisphere) spring.

[BushyFromOz]

Its just embarrassing the Bullshit PR that comes out of AV Its like when they were rabbiting on about how they were the first amblance service in the country to have all its ICP's performing RSI, which is bullshit because that distinction goes to Canberra.

[Happiness]

and BCAS needs a good bitch slapping.

Just remember we slap back........ (with coho)

So really a good topic to discuss. I saw this issue on BCTV but I was alittle appauled at the fact that the woman was spouting off about something she has no knowledge of. I hate it when people go off about well they do it there. Well just because they do it there dosen't mean it is feasable here, ya she said well they already have a working model just use that. Well if this person had actually looked into it (and the media) they would have discovered as squint said it is being done in Alberta, the info from aussie land is wrong. People need to realize that there are different laws, and processes in each and evey country that have to be taken into account when introducing new protocols. And that folks is my rant.

Now do I think this is a good idea "right on if it is going to save lives Im game for anything" Now with that being said I have to ask what is protocol for this, at what level of training is going to have this protocol, is there a need to do a risk vrs benifit. I do know that ALS and CCP have the ability to give blood and the only time that I have wittnessed this is on Medivac's. But they get the blood from the hospital and take extra with them, is this the norm?

What about the Prince Rupert Heli they are PCP and so are some on the fix plane crews, people just assume that because you are flying around you have a higher skill level then myself. I have work here for 15 years and there is not one instance that a pt died because there wasnt blood available to them.

[tniuqs]

Just remember we slap back........ (with coho)

So really a good topic to discuss. I saw this issue on BCTV but I was alittle appauled at the fact that the woman was spouting off about something she has no knowledge of. I hate it when people go off about well they do it there.

Well just because they do it there dosen't mean it is feasable here, ya she said well they already have a working model just use that. Well if this person had actually looked into it (and the media) they would have discovered as squint said it is being done in Alberta, the info from aussie land is wrong.

People need to realize that there are different laws, and processes in each and evey country that have to be taken into account when introducing new protocols. And that folks is my rant.

Now do I think this is a good idea "right on if it is going to save lives Im game for anything" Now with that being said I have to ask what is protocol for this, at what level of training is going to have this protocol, is there a need to do a risk vrs benifit.

I do know that ALS and CCP have the ability to give blood and the only time that I have wittnessed this is on Medivac's. But they get the blood from the hospital and take extra with them, is this the norm?

What about the Prince Rupert Heli they are PCP and so are some on the fix plane crews, people just assume that because you are flying around you have a higher skill level then myself. I have work here for 15 years and there is not one instance that a pt died because there wasnt blood available to them.

Edited July 22, 2011 by tniuqs

[Happiness]

OK Squint Horns are locked

Every single EMS system has its issues. I am not going to go into the Union crap so don't bring it up and you know my views on that . (and so you are aware there is someone that goes on this site from Ontario that was granted and interview with BCAS) and it is common practise with in any union to do in house advertising of a position before it goes to the general public. Thats it on that subject.

Do I like Licensing in my life Nope, there are alot of holes in that system but there they are and I have to comply. Now the issue of CME Credits I get mine every year and to tell you the truth it makes me learn. In rual communities we don't always get the opportinity to go to workshops ect. 20 credits each year really is not that hard and also you have to have 20 pt contacts in order to keep your license. There are communities like Port Clements for example that may not get those 20 pts in a year. When they fail to get those it tells someone in paramedic land that hey we need to go to that community and make sure these paramedics are not forgetting their skills (and they do), you know the old adage "if you dont use it, you loose it" and also if makes that medic think about loosing his license and maybe they will step out of the box and go to Prince Rupert and do some shifts there. Hence my opinion for advancement to the ALS level. I do support it of course I do, but for the reason of for example our station last year did 299 calls and that is between approx 10 medics. Now since I take the most shifts im betting I was on most of them and there was not one call that made me think god I wish I had ALS (so you know it is now ACP, I was politely informed of that the other day) Why in the world would I go and take years of school to get it and then come back to my home and not be able to keep up my skills (which to me would be a hazzard to my pts)or my license because Im not getting right calls. For example Last NY`s I used Narcan for the first time in ten years of having that protocol.

So one thing I should point out is that when I joined I had only my OFA 3. Air goes in and then out and your blood goes round and round. The training that is going on now is ten folds better and hopefully it will get even better. We are not there yet but it is on it way.

She made excellent points and shone a light in some of the dark corners, getting the taxpayers to ask hard questions to government.

Not in the interview that I saw and personally I think taxpayers should be prioritizing the hard questions to government and sorry Squint in my eyes this is not real high on my list.

Yes agreed BCAS are protocol monkeys, they are NOT Laws and the 'guidelines" need to be modernized, Administering blood products or Volume expanders is practising, what I like to call progressive Evidence Based Medicine for optimal care.

My comment was not just to the blood issue it was to general society. And I`m pretty sure there would be some Laws around giving people blood. Now most of the issues would be for religious reasons but in the end could be an issue. So with your monkey comment do you not have to follow protocols.

Strictly ACP or higher, PCP can not treat an acute hemolytic reaction, most couldn't recognise it adding a "protocol" just will not cut the mustard.

So are you saying that if I was able to get a course on this topic alone that I am not smart enough to recongnise it, I would certainly hope not. So you know there are cases where I recognised things in Pts that nurses and Drs. didn,t because I take it upon myself to learn from others and yes I have used things you have said on these forums in my practise. I am aloud to think outside of the box.

No offence personally intended but putting a PCP in the back of a 222 is like putting a 13 y/o in a Ferrari, but NEVER had a death from hypovolemia in flight or in P.R. with a PCP attending .. does P.R. even have a trauma surgeon NO ! Normal Saline only is pittiful and causes Hypernatrimic or Hyyperchlorimic metabolic acisosis and in with large volumes screws up clotting cascade, my bet is that some polytrauma have died as a direct result of BC protocol and not carrying at least one volume expander at the PCP level.

First of all I said where I am not Prince Rupert. And Yes Prince Rupert has the ability for Truama Surgery. The perfered place is Vancouver or Prince George.

So for the record I didnt say this was a bad idea EVER.

Personally I take my knowledge seriously and if there is something I dont know I will research or I will go to a nurse or dr and ask.

Ok now back to our regular scheduled programing Sorry for derailing the thread.

[tniuqs]

<snip> it is common practise with in any union to do in house advertising of a position before it goes to the general public. Thats it on that subject.

Hiring based on union rules which by very definition are against TILMA and a human rights issue hiring based on wear one resides .. I applied for 4 flight positions just how many ACP plus RRT with tons of flight hours specialised teams and + 30 years is last on the list for consideration (hey that itself is age discrimination) <cough>

I will not be submitting mine this year because the rules of engagement BC licencing have a curious loop hole, if I request an "assessor" then I am forced to take a field practical / evaluation to be allowed to write the exam and based on the protocol paint by number test and best get the sequence correct. I do not believe an out of province ACP has been permitted to do this as one has to be hired with BCAS dont they, to be covered by BCAS insurance, perhaps more than one way to skin a cat EH ? caught in their own game.

Do I like Licensing in my life Nope, there are alot of holes in that system but there they are and I have to comply. Now the issue of CME Credits I get mine every year and to tell you the truth it makes me learn. In rual communities we don't always get the opportinity to go to workshops ect. 20 credits each year really is not that hard and also you have to have 20 pt contacts in order to keep your license. Yes cut, cough, stuck fart (need I say more)

A True Professional does not need government intervention to maintain competency.

And that's my point, with CE not only BC but AB it guarantees nothing and my perfect example is an ACP taking an OFA First aid course completes ALL CE credits LMFAO ... no pulse ox mentioned .. no b/p mentioned or even taught .... no traction splinting ... and the O2 admin is laughable ... the infectious disease control with velcro straps is true situational irony (unless you throw them out after one patient so CE of 20 credits to maintain my ACP licensure in BC well simply stated its a bloody farce. Besides your wrong the training syllabus Industrial BC FA since 1979 HAS NOT CHANGED I have a copy I will send it to you if you ask politely LOL.

<snip> Hence my opinion for advancement to the ALS level. I do support it of course I do, but for the reason of for example our station last year did 299 calls and that is between approx 10 medics. Now since I take the most shifts im betting I was on most of them and there was not one call that made me think god I wish I had ALS (so you know it is now ACP, I was politely informed of that the other day)

So based on call volume you don't need ALS levels ... I see.

Why in the world would I go and take years of school to get it and then come back to my home and not be able to keep up my skills (which to me would be a hazzard to my pts)or my license because Im not getting right calls.

Again the "fall back position" for BCAS in patient contact its a waste of my bad breath, if this were so important maybe do a BCAS funded practical in VAN or VIC ? LMAO as if !

For example Last NY`s I used Narcan for the first time in ten years of having that protocol.

So with the BCAS logic you have not had enough patient contact to give that medication ?

Not in the interview that I saw and personally I think taxpayers should be prioritizing the hard questions to government and sorry Squint in my eyes this is not real high on my list.

What's higher on your list than life saving interventions that cost $217 CND per unit ?

My comment was not just to the blood issue it was to general society. And I`m pretty sure there would be some Laws around giving people blood. Now most of the issues would be for religious reasons but in the end could be an issue. So with your monkey comment do you not have to follow protocols.

This thread has nothing to do with religious abstainers very off topic.

No laws, just standard accepted medical practice guidelines ps BC has also changed the terms of reference as well, if one can justify a treatment, seriously I have never been challenged on a treatment intervention in over 30 years but I have queried MDs transfer orders.

Quoting "protocol" in an ER and the MDs will laugh you out the door, or just

So are you saying that if I was able to get a course on this topic alone that I am not smart enough to recongnise it, I would certainly hope not. So you know there are cases where I recognised things in Pts that nurses and Drs. didn't because I take it upon myself to learn from others and yes I have used things you have said on these forums in my practise. I am aloud to think outside of the box.

And that again is the gospel / brainwash according to BCAS the stepping stone approach in one treatment one merit badge, most seriously at the PCP level just do not have the background, that is why minimum level ACP is a necessity one needs the background prior too more toys in the box, btw can PCP start central lines, if one is pressure infusing you will blow AC in a heartbeat.

First of all I said where I am not Prince Rupert. And Yes Prince Rupert has the ability for Truama Surgery. The perfered place is Vancouver or Prince George.

Sending an unstable polytrauma to VAN from Masset is a death sentence. Yes I know where you live but careful now some abdo surgeries are performed in PR but its no where near a trauma centre (71 beds minus long term care beds ) come on PLEASE and neither is PG its only a level II, on a good day at best.

So for the record I didnt say this was a bad idea EVER.

I know but your buttons are just so easy to push but it amuses me.

[Happiness]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEE you drive me bat shit (thanks dwyane for that:). All I noticed in that garbaly goop is you didnt answer my question on you having to follow protocols mehhhhhhhhhhh.

A True Professional does not need government intervention to maintain competency ok you coho lover, did you say this She made excellent points and shone a light in some of the dark corners, getting the taxpayers to ask hard questions to government. So if your expecting the government to answer the hard questions that should have they not have access information....which they would get through licensing ect. And it dosnt matter who is watching the system, the gov, the union, or an outside entity, there is always going to someone to answer to and that is a good thing right?

And you should know by now what i type is not what I mean. When I was refering to the training I was refering to the fact I started with the OFA (i dont care what it is now as it is not the perfered training for entry) The point I was getting was that they retrained me at the CME level, then the PCP level and the new entry for BCAS is the EMR which in reality is an over-rated OFA I know but it is better than before.

Oh and the Narcan issue is that it isnt a drug that is going to kill you (i also have cheat sheets) but if I was given all of the drug PROTOCOLS and came back here didnt use them for 10 years do you think that there might be a higher chance of error, I do.

Any ways Squint you are as always a great advisary and its always a joy to rant at you

Still friends eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dustdevil]

I think air ambulances should carry semen.

[tniuqs]

I think air ambulances should carry semen.

They do !