Autism

[Katiebug]

I'm all ears.

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[DwayneEMTP]

...I've been told not to believe my lying eyes, but the facts don't add up. Tell me I'm missing something....

Yeah, I can't, and I'm humbled by your passion.

I do believe that the vast, vast majority of cases reported today compared with yesteryear can be attributed to classification/diagnostics as well as awareness. I mean autism was only listed as a disorder not that long ago.

There is a story in the book, The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat where he explains about the first time that he diagnosed a Tourettes patient. He had been practicing for generations and had never seen one, yet after that single patient, when he walked out onto the street he saw 6-7 in one day. (Have to forgive any errors in details, I'm typing from memory without verifying the numbers, but the point still holds I believe) They had not suddenly sprang from nowhere but his change in perspective simply caused them to become visible.

And I don't argue your belief in environmental factors, though of course I can't verify them either. The human mind is only slightly understood in it's healthy state and autism is arguably the most complex mish/mash of cerebral co/cross/misfirings consistently observed to date. We don't really even know where the autism lives or why it was programmed to live there, so we've likely got a few days before we know where it was born.

I'm grateful for the article though if given the chance to view her motivations there is every chance I would punch that chick right in the twat for once again claiming a cure where none exists.

Enjoy those beautiful babies...and when they make you batshit crazy and you just want to choke them? Remember that that behavior, the one that makes you crazy, that stubborn, single minded, rebellious, emotional behavior is the exact one that those of us with autistic kids would likely give our lives for.

Thanks so much for your thoughts. They are logical, and passionate, and kind. I wish I knew more parents of autistic kids that thought and felt like you do...

Dwayne

[Katiebug]

Thanks for the kind words, Dwayne. But I don't deserve any of that. I'm just looking for answers. It's a puzzle that someone like me has almost zero chance of piecing together, but I can't help thinking about it anyway.

Honestly, I think it stems from a fear I have for my own children. I don't know how well that will be received, but it's the truth. It's happening way too much. Something is doing this to us.

It's genetics. No, it's the adjuvants in the vaccines. Wait, now they've added squaline. No, no.... It can't be the vaccines, it's got to be... fluoride. You know that stuff is bad ju ju.

So after months of research, my family avoids fluoride. Unless you (collectively) have done an exhaustive study on it yourself, don't argue that one with me. I'll eat you alive.

I don't know what to do about vaccinations for my kids. The vaccine schedule as it stands is a complete assault on an infant. How can the benefit outweigh the risk when the efficacy of vaccines can't be proven in the first place? Again, you'd better be well read to argue that, too.

By God, it's something.

I haven't had anybody to talk to about it. For all the talk about not being protocol monkeys, I'd sure like to see some questioning of the establishment here. Don't be afraid to go out on a limb. What have you got to lose by exploring possibilities? Even if you don't think an idea is plausible, consider it an excersize in abstract thinking.

Definitely read the counter studies to what the government puts out.

Edited because I had more to say.

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Edited August 1, 2011 by Katiebug

[emtannie]

I don't know what to do about vaccinations for my kids. The vaccine schedule as it stands is a complete assault on an infant. How can the benefit outweigh the risk when the efficacy of vaccines can't be proven in the first place? Again, you'd better be well read to argue that, too.

I am definitely not well read enough to argue the efficacy of vaccines with you... but I do know that I wish the chicken pox vaccine had been available for me as a kid, and as a young adult (yeah, I am showing my age)...

I had chicken pox twice - the first time when I was 12, and I had pneumonia at the same time. From what I am told, I was near death for many days. I only really remember a bit of that time, and missing a lot of school.

The second time, I was in my last semester of university, which then turned out not to be my last semester, as missing 3 weeks of school during midterms isn't condusive to graduating. My symptoms were severe enough that I have permanent hearing loss from it.

In that case, to me, the benefits of the vaccine outweighed the risks... I wish I could have had it...

So now I am going to thank you for giving me a project on my next night shift (which is tomorrow).. I am going to read up on the efficacy of vaccinations, because I don't know enough about it.

I was never able to have children, so I cannot relate to having a "normal" child (what the heck is normal?) or one who has difficulties. My husband is a teacher, and used to work with teens with special problems. Now he teaches Grade 6. He always says "Every child is gifted. Just because they may not be gifted in math, or science, doesn't mean they aren't gifted at something else. I have had students who couldn't count to 10, but put a musical instrument in their hands, and they work magic; or put them on a stage, and they are Hamlet. Too many times we only consider a child's gifts as being academic."

To all who have children... count your blessings.. although they may be trying, they are still a precious gift to you. To those who have children with difficulties... you have been given special challenges, and I don't know what I would do in the same situation. Dwayne, I consider you and Babs dear friends, and Dylan could not have gotten better parents than you.

OK, now that I have derailed this thread enough.... I should probably head to sleep....

[DwayneEMTP]

...I don't know how well that will be received, but it's the truth...

Yeah, screw how it would be received. But I know what you mean..if you claim to be afraid of having an autistic child then you seem to be saying that you don't want an autistic child so therefore my child must be beneath wanting..rah rah bullshit, right? Good on you for your honesty.

...So after months of research, my family avoids fluoride. Unless you (collectively) have done an exhaustive study on it yourself, don't argue that one with me. I'll eat you alive.

Then it seems that you would seek debate to poke holes in your perfect understanding of the subject, wouldn't you? Though I do love the challenge...but you kill your chance to educate with that kind of a challenge as no one can answer it without at least days to research their ideas...Most of us don't have time for that.

...I don't know what to do about vaccinations for my kids. The vaccine schedule as it stands is a complete assault on an infant. How can the benefit outweigh the risk when the efficacy of vaccines can't be proven in the first place? Again, you'd better be well read to argue that, too.

I can only go this far, as I've not looked into in 5 years+. Polio went somewhere. And the studies that I found before, though I'm not sure that I can find them again, seemed to show that the incidence in autism was higher in the non vaccinated groups than in those vaccinated.

...By God, it's something.

Agreed.

...I haven't had anybody to talk to about it. For all the talk about not being protocol monkeys, I'd sure like to see some questioning of the establishment here. Don't be afraid to go out on a limb. What have you got to lose by exploring possibilities? Even if you don't think an idea is plausible, consider it an excersize in abstract thinking.

What would be the governments motivation for causing/allowing autism? It is becoming a massive drain of money, autistics will likely never vote, and it's going to continue to get more and more expensive each year as more autistics reach adulthood. What is the benefit to the government?

...Definitely read the counter studies to what the government puts out...

Always. Question everything as always. Just don't get lost in the anger and frustration as it takes you down really dumb roads. When Dylan was diagnosed I spent hundreds of hours a month on the internet, looking for someone to blame...I needed someone to attack! But all that did was cause me to follow charlatans....No good can come from that....

...Edited because I had more to say....

I get the feeling that you have a lot to say...and that it's mostly worth hearing..I look forward to it.

Dwayne

[Richard B the EMT]

I have a friend, a now retired EMT, who has a 13 year old son with autism. As already mentioned, I asked her to review the article,and our string, and she comments as follows:

There is a lot of truth to it. they say a gluten free diet is the way to go,

but its not so with certain individuals. some respond, some don't.

I have been saying this for 13 years!!!!! vaccines do play a role in

predisposed children!!!!!

Its not the vaccines, its the PRESERVATIVE in the vaccine, so if one

DEMANDS single dose vials, as my pediatrician automatically carries, there

should be no, or very little, risk of autism

[Richard B the EMT]

I have a friend, a now retired EMT, who has a 13 year old son with autism. As already mentioned, I asked her to review the article,and our string, and she comments as follows:

There is a lot of truth to it. they say a gluten free diet is the way to go,

but its not so with certain individuals. some respond, some don't.

I have been saying this for 13 years!!!!! vaccines do play a role in

predisposed children!!!!!

Its not the vaccines, its the PRESERVATIVE in the vaccine, so if one

DEMANDS single dose vials, as my pediatrician automatically carries, there

should be no, or very little, risk of autism

Oops, sorry about the double send.

[Katiebug]

I messed up and this all came out as a quote. My messages are mixed in with Dwayne's quote. I marked my responses with a bullet.

•@ Annie: I am putting some links together for you. I'll try to send them to you tonight. If I can't, it will likely be Thursday. Hope it helps.

Yeah, screw how it would be received. But I know what you mean..if you claim to be afraid of having an autistic child then you seem to be saying that you don't want an autistic child so therefore my child must be beneath wanting..rah rah bullshit, right? Good on you for your honesty.

•What's true and what's PC to say don't always mesh. Quite often things are deliberately misinterpreted or misconstrued to silence non PC speech. Sometimes it's hard to speak the truth for fear of being labeled as ignorant, insensitive or uneducated. It breaks down communication and makes us dance around what we want to say. Thank you for understanding.

Then it seems that you would seek debate to poke holes in your perfect understanding of the subject, wouldn't you?

•Yes.

I can only go this far, as I've not looked into in 5 years+. Polio went somewhere. And the studies that I found before, though I'm not sure that I can find them again, seemed to show that the incidence in autism was higher in the non vaccinated groups than in those vaccinated.

•I'll gather some links. I wish now I had been keeping notes. It gets difficult when you visit twenty sites in a sitting.

What would be the governments motivation for causing/allowing autism?

•There is a theory on that. I'll be glad to share it with you privately.

Always. Question everything as always. Just don't get lost in the anger and frustration as it takes you down really dumb roads.

•I'm trying not to go down those roads. I have my own theories that do not include the OP. I posted that to debate it and start a discussion. I knew better than to start it off with the vaccine debate.

I get the feeling that you have a lot to say...and that it's mostly worth hearing..I look forward to it.

Dwayne

Good. I'm glad you're talking to me. People tend to run away when they realize the same old arguments don't work for them anymore. I need someone that does more than rattle on about what the government says. I have questions. And a theory or two.

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Richard, I didn't see your post until after I posted. Please invite your friend to join the discussion.

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Here's some food for thought:

http://m.upi.com/m/story/UPI-52721127847792/

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Edited August 2, 2011 by Katiebug

[Richard B the EMT]

Please invite your friend to join the discussion.

Over the years, I have lead many EMS "Horses" to the EMT City "Water". I just cannot make them drink.

[paramedicmike]

I don't know what to do about vaccinations for my kids. The vaccine schedule as it stands is a complete assault on an infant. How can the benefit outweigh the risk when the efficacy of vaccines can't be proven in the first place? Again, you'd better be well read to argue that, too.

As has been mentioned:

What happened to polio?

What happened to smallpox?

What happened to measles? Mumps? Rubella?

What happened to pertussis?

What happened to tetanus?

Lack of proof of effectiveness? Really? There are diseases that have been eradicated thanks to vaccines. Now there's somehow no proof that they work?

I'm sincerely interested in your argument that points to an assault on an infant with regards to vaccine schedules. I'm equally interested in the evidence you can cite that clearly demonstrates a lack of proof of the efficacy of vaccinations. As you're so well read on the subject I figure this will be easy for you.

Reputable sources, please.