Vorenus Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Hey friends, got some questions regarding this topic, especially (but not only) for the UK members of the beard. So, as a preamble. I`m kind of frustrated of working in the german EMS, even though I`m not that long into the profession, The shitty laws regarding EMS that give you nothing but holes to fall into, regardless of which way you turn, the lack of approved competences, the general concecpt of it being so foolishly thought through! All the while working at conditions and for money that are quite laughable. Let`s just say that much - when I`m on the rig with a partner, that is a Rettungssanitäter (=something like EMT- B and therefore my subordinate -> guess who`s getting more fricking money? Yep, my partner. Because here, it`s policy to hire you as a lesser rank, to save money, while all the while you are working in your actual position. Meaning - while I`m taking all the resposibility and doing ALS (up to the extent that we are allowed to) I`m getting lesser money then my colleague because we are in the same pay class, but since he`s longer at the firm we are working, he gets more money. Sorry for ranting, it`s just that... . Anyway, the more than bleak future prospects here, added with a long-term desire to live outside of Germany, let me think about doing something else. I`ve been looking into studying Paramedic Science in the UK, and though my researches are just at the first stage, I have still have some questions some of you could propably answer. I`ve been confused about some aspects. For one thing, there seem to be different finishing titles, but I can`t really see the relevant difference between the single study courses (that may also be due to my lack of knowledge regarding the UK university system in itself, it`s quite different from ours). Beneath others, I`ve been looking into the University of Hertfordshire. There programme seems really interesting, all with the gap year between the second and the forth being a year where you only work at the London NHS. You end with a Bachelor, which seems good to and you even have the possibiliy to get your Master in Paramedic Science, though I`m still unsure what good that`s gonna give you...?! Also, it`s near to London, a plus in itself. Is there someone that has experience with the concept in itself, or even with making the course at one specific uni (Hertfordshire even)? There seem to be a lot of positive remarks about the study route... As said before, I don`t have any real plans yet, I`m just thinking a little bit around the corner (maybe dreaming ). The most negative part would be the freaking outstandingly tution fees, which would propably kill me. Any answers would be greatly appreciated! Greetings Marius Edited August 1, 2011 by Vorenus
zippyRN Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Hi Marius as an EU citizen all ready you shouldn't have any difficulties working in the Uk from a paperwork point of view. the exact title of the course doesn't matter - if it;s a HPC approved course you will come out with Registration as a Paramedic http://www.hpc-uk.org/education/programmes/register/index.asp?EducationProviderID=all&StudyLevel=all&ProfessionID=10&ModeOfStudyID=all&RegionID=all&sSubmit=Search excuse the long link but that's the link to the HPC list of approved education / training providers many of the courses recruit through UCAS http://www.ucas.com , although other courses may recruit directly (e.g. the NHS services that can run their own courses - employing people as 'trainee / Student Paramedics )
Vorenus Posted August 1, 2011 Author Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Hi Marius as an EU citizen all ready you shouldn't have any difficulties working in the Uk from a paperwork point of view. the exact title of the course doesn't matter - if it;s a HPC approved course you will come out with Registration as a Paramedic http://www.hpc-uk.or...&sSubmit=Search excuse the long link but that's the link to the HPC list of approved education / training providers many of the courses recruit through UCAS http://www.ucas.com , although other courses may recruit directly (e.g. the NHS services that can run their own courses - employing people as 'trainee / Student Paramedics ) Thanks for your answer zippy! Yeah, I wanted to take the university route. As far as I understood it, the NHS-based courses train only their own workers, so you would have to take the traditional route starting with EMT-B and hope to get qualified in your line of work for one of the courses. So, it would be UCAS for me. I`ve already made some background search, but I would need to contact the NARIC to transfer the grades of my Abitur (A-Levels) into their system. But I`m not really worried about that part, since my A-Levels were very good. I understood that every degree must be HPC approved - but the diversity of the different degrees is still a puzzle for me. How can they be so different to end with various degrees - while they are still all HPC approved. They all result in the same profession with the same competences (at least this is my understanding), there`s gotta be a reason for that?! E.g. at Hertfordshire, you can either study Paramedic Science ending wih a Foundations Degree (3 years) - or, you can study it and end with a BS Hons (4 years, with one gap year in which you are working with the London NHS). They are both HPC approved, still they are ending with different degrees and you need different UCAS scoring points to start (being: Foundations Degree < Bs Hons). Just to understand my confusion and persistence towards that point: if I would really take the decision and go that route, I would naturally try to get the best degree, which would give me the most knowledge and possibilities, available. Edited August 1, 2011 by Vorenus
zippyRN Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 <snip> I understood that every degree must be HPC approved - but the diversity of the different degrees is still a puzzle for me. How can they be so different to end with various degrees - while they are still all HPC approved. They all result in the same profession with the same competences (at least this is my understanding), there`s gotta be a reason for that?! E.g. at Hertfordshire, you can either study Paramedic Science ending wih a Foundations Degree (3 years) - or, you can study it and end with a BS Hons (4 years, with one gap year in which you are working with the London NHS). They are both HPC approved, still they are ending with different degrees and you need different UCAS scoring points to start (being: Foundations Degree < Bs Hons). Just to understand my confusion and persistence towards that point: if I would really take the decision and go that route, I would naturally try to get the best degree, which would give me the most knowledge and possibilities, available. In the UK there is a degree of separation between the academic award and the professional qualification , there's a minimum academic level for the qualification but qualifications above that are allowed - this is why there are both Diploma /Foundation Degree (level 5 ) and Bachelors degrees (level 6) university courses and both Level 4 and level 5 courses running through employers whether it's the IHCD course, the UEA Cert HE or the Scottish diploma/Foundation degree ) this also applies to other HPC professions - there are both diploma and degree ODP courses and both Bachelor and Masters Courses in OT and Physio , and why there are both Diploma and Bachelors degrees for Nurses and Midwives approved by the NMC - although there will be no new diploma courses after 2012 for Nurses and Midwives... UCAS points are a measure of the popularity of the course as much as they are of entry standards - Foundation degrees / Dip HE might break you in more slowly to university level work as well... 1
Vorenus Posted August 3, 2011 Author Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) In the UK there is a degree of separation between the academic award and the professional qualification , there's a minimum academic level for the qualification but qualifications above that are allowed - this is why there are both Diploma /Foundation Degree (level 5 ) and Bachelors degrees (level 6) university courses and both Level 4 and level 5 courses running through employers whether it's the IHCD course, the UEA Cert HE or the Scottish diploma/Foundation degree ) this also applies to other HPC professions - there are both diploma and degree ODP courses and both Bachelor and Masters Courses in OT and Physio , and why there are both Diploma and Bachelors degrees for Nurses and Midwives approved by the NMC - although there will be no new diploma courses after 2012 for Nurses and Midwives... UCAS points are a measure of the popularity of the course as much as they are of entry standards - Foundation degrees / Dip HE might break you in more slowly to university level work as well... Since I`ve been reading more and more about this topic, I guess a Foundations degree to start with wouldn`t be a bad idea. I`ve been told that the BSc courses offer mainly more academic topics, that would be usefull in educational or research work (e.g. if you`d like to get into teaching, etc.). Though this sounds interesting too and I could imagine myself in one of these courses, I guess it isn`t needed right at the start of your career. As far as I`m informed, there are programmes, where you can top up your Foundations Degree to an BSc, and - what would be really great - this may be paid by your employer (if you are in a settled job situation). So even if you start with a Fd(Sc) you can still follow an academic route. The obvious advantage would be a shorter training (mostly two years) - though it`s not really the years of training that are the point here, but the exorbitant tution fees. So that would be the primarily advantage, while you can still follow the academic route when you`ve been settled into a more secure financial position. But: Do you have the same chances to be recruited with a Fd(Sc) in comparison to a BSc? Are their differences in recruitment policy? P.S.: I`ve found some universites that are much cheaper than Hertfordshire and still sound really interesting. Although Hertfordshire seems like a hell of a nice place to be, it`s tution fees would kill me. Edited August 3, 2011 by Vorenus
Vorenus Posted August 3, 2011 Author Posted August 3, 2011 (edited) Since I`ve been reading more and more about this topic, I guess a Foundations degree to start with wouldn`t be a bad idea. I`ve been told that the BSc courses offer mainly more academic topics, that would be usefull in educational or research work (e.g. if you`d like to get into teaching, etc.). Though this sounds interesting too and I could imagine myself in one of these courses, I guess it isn`t needed right at the start of your career. As far as I`m informed, there are programmes, where you can top up your Foundations Degree to an BSc, and - what would be really great - this may be paid by your employer (if you are in a settled job situation). So even if you start with a Fd(Sc) you can still follow an academic route. The obvious advantage would be a shorter training (mostly two years) - though it`s not really the years of training that are the point here, but the exorbitant tution fees. So that would be the primarily advantage, while you can still follow the academic route when you`ve been settled into a more secure financial position. But: Do you have the same chances to be recruited with a Fd(Sc) in comparison to a BSc? Are their differences in recruitment policy? P.S.: I`ve found some universites that are much cheaper than Hertfordshire and still sound really interesting. Although Hertfordshire seems like a hell of a nice place to be, it`s tution fees would kill me. Yep, and further enquiries destroy also that streak of thoughts. I`ve totally forgotten that the British governement allowed tuition fees to increase up to 9000 pounds a year, starting 2012!!! That`s about 13-14000 Euro!!! But - there are UK governement student loans. The government is giving you the total of 9000 pounds a year and you gotta pay it back when you`ve started to work. The whole concept of increasing the tuition fees incredibly sucks of course, but due to that fact and that almost every single university is topping up to the max of fees - I`m in the game again with all universities (all are similar expensive). So, right now I`m pretty interested in the BScHons courses of Hertfordshire, Plymouth and Greenwich. Edited August 3, 2011 by Vorenus
zippyRN Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 Health professional courses are usually funded differently , but i'm not sure if there is a residency requirement for that - however if you don't meet the residency requirements you might struggle ot get a place ...
Vorenus Posted August 4, 2011 Author Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) Health professional courses are usually funded differently , but i'm not sure if there is a residency requirement for that - however if you don't meet the residency requirements you might struggle ot get a place ... Hm, I`ve never stumbled over any note reffering to residency requirements. All the while, there is only one differentiation - between UK/EU students and international students (non-EU students). About funding - the governments loans are not specific for any course. Plus, I`ve already looked up that as a EU-student, you qualify for these loans as much as an UK citizen. The only thing you won`t get is a loan or even a grant for living costs, as you must either be a UK citizen for that or have lived for at least 3 years in the UK. Or did you mean something different? Edited August 4, 2011 by Vorenus
zippyRN Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Health professional courses are not funded by the Dept Education they are funded by the DoH so the residency requirements may be different - in some cases it can be very hard for international (even EU) students to get on the courses due to the numbers and issues over clinical placements
Vorenus Posted August 8, 2011 Author Posted August 8, 2011 Health professional courses are not funded by the Dept Education they are funded by the DoH so the residency requirements may be different - in some cases it can be very hard for international (even EU) students to get on the courses due to the numbers and issues over clinical placements Sorry, I still don`t get the point when it comes to residency requirements. When it comes to funding: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/DG_194804 The all-covering student loans that will be available in 2012 doesn`t seem to come from the Dept. Education, but directly from the British Government. I`ve been browsing through these sites quite often in the last times, but I never read that this loans wouldn`t be possible for Health Professional courses.
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