Dealing With Death Suddenly and After the Fact

[Kschuppan]

Hi Guys,

I am about to start EMT class at the local community college. My overall goal is to get into the fire department as a fire fighter. This has been a dream of my because i enjoy helping people and making people smile, i like the hours it offers, and i like the physical, not sitting behind a desk, side of it.

However i do have a concern. I do not know how i would act around a dead body. So my questions are....

1.) How have you reacted to seeing a dead body, and working on someone then having them die in your hands?

2.) Have you ever been "haunted" or bothered after a shift while your at home, after dealing with a dead person?

3.) Have you ever second guessed or not wanted to go to work because of all the death you've seen and you don't want to see anymore?

These are questions i have had on my mind for sometime and any feed back will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Kyle

[paramedicmike]

Hi Guys,

Hi Kyle.

I am about to start EMT class at the local community college. My overall goal is to get into the fire department as a fire fighter. This has been a dream of my because i enjoy helping people and making people smile, i like the hours it offers, and i like the physical, not sitting behind a desk, side of it.

I'm sure you have no way of understanding the depth of the controversy that exists within your comment. Without deviating too much from this so as to focus on your questions below, please do some research into fire based EMS systems. You can even do some research here as there have been many topics on the subject of fire based EMS, fire fighters providing EMS and the goals of people aspiring to be either fire fighters or EMS providers.

This is a very hot topic and has been discussed many times on these forums. Hold on to your hat.

However i do have a concern. I do not know how i would act around a dead body. So my questions are....

1.) How have you reacted to seeing a dead body, and working on someone then having them die in your hands?

Honestly? I don't think about it too much. People die. It's the only thing in life we can't get around. I'll die someday. You'll die someday. Every patient I've ever treated will die someday. Sometimes no matter what we do people will die right in front of us. It's happened to me before. I'm sure it'll happen again. You do the best you can at all times. That's all you can do.

As far as reacting, well, react as you'd like someone to react if it were you, or your mom, or your grandmother. Show some respect and you'll be fine.

If you've never seen a dead person before it may prove to be a bit of a shock. Everyone handles it differently.

2.) Have you ever been "haunted" or bothered after a shift while your at home, after dealing with a dead person?

Yep. Spend any appreciable time in the business and you will, too.

No. I will not tell you about them.

If you notice a rather warped sense of humour developing in yourself or coworkers understand that it's a coping mechanism. It happens and is natural. Just don't become so calloused that you don't care.

3.) Have you ever second guessed or not wanted to go to work because of all the death you've seen and you don't want to see anymore?

Nope. Not once. I love my job. I understand that there are some people I can help. I understand there are some people I can't help. I do the best I can. Every day is a new challenge. That's what I look forward to every day when I go in. That doesn't mean I haven't wanted a vacation on occasion. But I've never second guessed the work I do.

Welcome to the forums. Ask all the questions you want to. With any luck you'll get good answers, too.

[BushyFromOz]

Dude, i know your new to the whole thing, and you may cop some flak from folks for it, but i'd just ask if you can at least consider and understand that using my profession to become a firefighter is very very bad for m profession?

I feel like my head wants to explode

Other than that, welcome to the city, take heed of what guys like mike, dwayne etc have to say and listen closely - it is always exceptional advice that will be immensely useful. Whether or not you want to be FF or an Ambo is sorta irrelevent at the moment, but whichever way you go at least get there properly, and not in a half assed manner.

Cheers Bloke

[paramedicmike]

Dude, i know your new to the whole thing, and you may cop some flak from folks for it, but i'd just ask if you can at least consider and understand that using my profession to become a firefighter is very very bad for m profession?

I feel like my head wants to explode

Kyle,

This is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned how charged your comments were. Again, I really don't think you had any way of knowing this so I can't give you too much grief over it. But you really need to do some research based on what Bushy has said.

For the record, too, I agree with Bushy 100%.

[DwayneEMTP]

The problem I think, with this question, is that there isn't a clear correlation to my knowledge, my experiences to yours. Or my reactions to yours.

We all had different mental and emotional toolboxes when were were first exposed to death. Some grew up like Snoop Dog, others like peewee Herman. Even then, I don't know that you can predict that Snoop is going to react more solidly or appropriately to early exposure to the many kinds of death that you will see. I just don't think it's really that intuitive.

I've seen men, women and children shot/stabbed/burned/abused to death, some I found that way, others died after I left them, some in my care, and it's possible others even because of my care.

Each one made me introspective, but I can't remember ever losing sleep over the dead. A few of my patients that lived have broken my heart and taken a few minutes to process...

You will catch a little hell for using EMS to become a fireman, and if you really want to help people, you'll bail on that and become a medic/RN/doc...The movies look awesome in regards to burning buildings and crying babies, but the reality is different.

But either way, if you can't hang from getting a little shit for wanting to be a hosemonkey, you won't likely have the backbone for EMS anyway... but I've got a feeling you can hang...

Stick it out brother, participate here, and you'll be shocked at the difference between you and your classmates as you go through school...

Dwayne

[FireMedicChick164]

Well then...I am trying to decide where to begin here. I agree with the other guys...if you wanna be a tech, be a tech and stick with it. If you are just becoming a tech to use that as a means to be a firefighter...that doesn't sit right with me. I will share the following with you only because you are being honest with us by revealing your true intentions as far as your job aspirations.

I have been in this business for 12 years. Started as a vollie EMT/Firefighter and now I work as a paid AEMT (I still vollie on my days off). I have seen a lot of death in 12 years. Some of it not so pretty. Everyone is going to die sometime and you just have to accept that. Hell, you are going to die eventually...hopefully later in life than sooner.

I can tell you that I grew up in the fire department, my Dad was a single parent and joined when I was 4 years old so I spent a lot of time around the guys and the lifestyle. It was just natural for me to follow in his footsteps.

The first time I saw a dead body was at age 18 when my great grandmother passed away in my presence. Emotionally it hurt because she was a relative. Yeah, it sucked.

I joined the FD the next year and not too long after that I did CPR on my first cardiac arrest ever. They called it in the ER and I went into the washroom and cried for 10 minutes. We sat around the firehouse talking about it afterward and I haven't reacted that way since.

You just take it as it comes...if they die, they die. You did all you could to help them but we can't save them all.

Haunted by a patient? Bothered by an outcome? Not really...the pedi calls get to you more than the calls for adults but you learn to deal with that too.

As much as I know the next call could involve death/dying, I still go to work every day. The live patients that I work with are more my concern and I feel truly rewarded when I can help someone at the worst moment of their life.

I'd recommend you vollie if you can...you will get experience and let you know if you are cut out for the job.

Some aren't and they find out too late.

Good luck to you and hope to see you around the forum.

[Kschuppan]

Thanks guys,

I apologize if my comments offended anyone. For all i know i may love being an EMT and stick with it. I just worry about how ill react when faced with death. Also coming from a religious background and education i assume it can be hard to "de-humanize" or separate the patient with someone you know.

What i assume tho with this job the pros, i.e. saving someones life, can counteract seeing someone slip away or not being able to help a person.

Also i assume as my class starts and i go through with it i will learn if i am cut out for the job more and more.

Thanks again for all you who responded, helps a lot

Kyle

[Chief1C]

People die. If you want to be in EMS and really make money.. Join a profession that is a complete conflict of interest. Become a funeral director. Cash in on the inevitable....

[NHEMTP]

If I may be so bold: I think I know who you are because I was much like you in 1997. I was.. let's just say I was rebellious and I did some stuff and saw some things prior to 1997. I was looking just as you are searching for meaning and importance in my life. Did I find it in becoming an EMT? No. FF1? No. Big city FD? No. EMT-I? No. Big City EMS? No. Paramedic? No.

What I have come to realize in the most basic terms is this:

1. It is necessary for me to work to make money to exchange for what I need to live.

2. I can function in highly stimulated scenarios and it actually helps my focus.. the more f'ed up the situation the better I function.

3. Every other job I've tried has been fundamentally too corrupt for me to ignore.

4. Healthcare is only as corrupt as I decide to make it.

I'm not sure if that will make sense to you because it's written in a language that perhaps is only comprehensible after you've seen some things that make you feel like you just took a trip to a house of mirrors and nothing's funny anymore.. Anyway, that's my two cents. You must be a good person because you came up with this crazy idea to help others because it makes you smile. The rest of the lesson is unfortunately too early for you. It wouldn't make any sense.

Know this though: You can be a GREAT FIRE FIGHTER or you can be a GREAT PARAMEDIC... but you will NEVER be both.. no one has and no one ever will. Choose one path or another or be squished like a grape.

[BushyFromOz]

Thanks guys,

I apologize if my comments offended anyone. For all i know i may love being an EMT and stick with it. I just worry about how ill react when faced with death. Also coming from a religious background and education i assume it can be hard to "de-humanize" or separate the patient with someone you know.

Not offended mate, your not to know about the ugly side of the fire/ems debate, but i encourage you look into it, you may be surprised by what you find.

As for the death thing theres not a lot of info i can give. Your up bringing, family situation, religion, life experiences, personal values and any other variable you will think of will change the way you react to someone else.

What i can tell you is that it is best to understand that you will not "save a life" very often. You will however improve a lot of outcomes and relieve a lot of suffering but you will rarely be in a position where you can "save" a life. One of the issues newbies have with pre-hospital care is this misguided though ultruistic idea that we run around saving lives on a daily basis, and its just not true. They get bored and burned out by the routine, the BS calls, the long hours and distinct lack of "big jobs" to keep interested and leave. Also, you never de-sensitise or de-humanise or seperate yourself psychologically from dealing with the deceased, you learn to understand the fragility of life and what the chances of *you* being able to save one really is.

Another thing is to not expect to be doing massive trauma, this impressive glamourous car smashes on the 6 o'clock news are few and far between for a provider. Sure, youll have runs of them but over a career you wont actually do that many.

As for the smokey thing and being worried about death, i can tell you that as a volunteer smokey not too long ago, i used to wish i could leave with the ambo's instead of babysitting corpses while the police were recovering the deceased, so you will not be less immune as a smokey, in fact there is a chance you will be more exposed as you can neither lessen your exposure to recovery like we can nor as an individual make a large difference to those that are still alive because the real thing we carry that helps people isn't a piece of equipment or machinery, its a Mk1 Brain.

I guarantee that some day you will wish you could have done more for a patient, we all do at some point, some of us will up-skill, some of us will study harder and some of us will leave because we are incapable of doing better. The question i ask you is whether or not you want to help people or help stop houses burning to the gorund, because one of these job's wil directly impact on people and another is focused on protecting property and limiting insurance claims.