Are some rescues just not worth it?

[Just Plain Ruff]

I got some pictures of before and after on a river. First picture is a idyllic river and the 2nd picture is a raging torrent of a river, huge undulating waves.

Consider there is a person (alive by grace of god) being swept down the river. The river is only going to get worse downstream.

do you attempt a swiftwater rescue or not?

Are there some rescues that are just not safe enough.

[Vorenus]

I got some pictures of before and after on a river. First picture is a idyllic river and the 2nd picture is a raging torrent of a river, huge undulating waves.

Consider there is a person (alive by grace of god) being swept down the river. The river is only going to get worse downstream.

do you attempt a swiftwater rescue or not?

Are there some rescues that are just not safe enough.

Definately!

Personal safety always comes first so much for the book. Anything else`s your own beer.

I`d say that depends on a various number of factors. To which extend can you analysis the situation and the rivers torrents? Are you in any way trained to do a swiftwater rescue? Are you a good swimmer? Experience in river torrents? Etc...

Also, there`s much more to a water rescue than jump in, grap patient, get out. So, if untrained...

Edited August 29, 2011 by Vorenus

[Chief1C]

Well, I consider a swift water rescue to be like a creek or a stream. Then, there's a river rescue. You don't attempt something, if you aren't properly equipped and trained to effect in the safest manner possible. So, if you're < those things, to do a rescue in a flooded river. Try. If you can't, well, that's life. It's gonna suck, BAD, for you, your crew, and the person that will probably die. You prolly won't get slapped, but emotionally, mentally, it's gonna be real hard - at some point.

[spenac]

Yes there are times we should just watch and monitor hoping they get get themselves out otherwise we just have to watch them die. Putting rescuers in just leads to more bodies to recover later.

[DFIB]

There are many scenarios where the probablility of adding the rescuer to the body count is pretty high. There comes a time when we have to put our superhero ego aside and face the reality of the situation and our limitaions. There are lots of instances where rescue isn't advisable not just swift water.

Almost all confined spaces with a man down end up being a recovery mission. Often times recovering the primary and one or two rescuers that attempted a rescue.

There is a saying 'To choose between crying at my house or crying at yours .... It is cold but true.

Edited August 30, 2011 by DFIB

[Richard B the EMT]

Just this summer, wasn't there a case where a California FD let a suicidal man drown, only to see a civilian pull the deceased from the ocean? AFTER this incident, the department supposedly then got basic rescue swimming instructions?

[uglyEMT]

Ruff I agree ONE HUNDERED PERCENT. Some rescues are just too dangerous. But the flip side of the coin is in the public eye we should rescue everyone.

I will play somewhat of a devil's advocate here. Some of us have gone through certain training disiplines be it swift water rescue, confined space rescue, tactical EMS, ect where the danger level is raised above that of the "average" first responder. It is in those instances the judgment of the responding crew comes in. I wouldn't expect the day to day EMT to jump into flood waters and rescue a person but I would expect a SWR team equiped properly to do so. Do tragities happen even to those folks YES. Sometimes we have to look at all the reasons for the bad to happen not just the situation.

A good example are rescue swimmers, we all know the story of the crew that lost one man during the "Perfect Storm". They did what they were trained to do but through a series of unfortunate events it all went wrong. Yet when one of these crews does make a save its not always in the news but to those that were helped angles were sent their way.

If my team feels the risk outways the reward (ie the "save") we will stand by and watch helplessly. We will pound our fists, curse, damn all to hell, ect but in the end sometimes we go from rescue to recovery. Will we push the envolpe of our training, sometimes we do, thats the nature of the beast BUT we always weigh the risk vs reward. Unfortunatly Mother Nature usually has a way of teaching us She is more powerful then any one of us when we decide we can "beat" Her.

One of my scarest moments actually came during training in SWR. We trained at a local water park, yea thats right a water park. Controlled conditions and all that stuff. I was tethered on the drag line crossing the "Lazy River" in which we had simulated debris (basically rafts and other objects including lounge chairs). My footing slipped and I went under but when i tried coming to the surface my drag line actually piled up the debris and I was held under. The force of the water plus the weight on my line made it difficult to get footing or clear my debris. Finally realizing I was my own worst enemy I just sank to the bottom and let the current take me after what seemed like an eternity enough debris cleared and I wound up in an eddy that allowed me to surface. So here in this instance in controled conditions it almost all went wrong, now picture it in a raging torrent in the middle of the malstrome with an actual life on the line. It can quickly go south. Yet when the tones go out I will answer the call but in the end I want to go home and see my family.

Yes there are some we can not save but we will try won't we?

[akflightmedic]

Consider there is a person (alive by grace of god)

Oh Ruffles, don't you know me by now??? Since the others gave very good replies and I always like to look into the deeper meaning of our actions or non-actions, and the fact you gave me a door big enough to drive a truck through, lets flip the topic slightly from a different perspective.

So a man falls in the river and is alive by the grace of god. Wow! The omnipotent one has decided the best course of action for his toy clay creature was to toss him in a river AND let him survive it??

1. Do we intervene and attempt a rescue because this is really a test to us? (Cause it is always about us)

2. Do we let the man keep going downriver to a certain death because that was god's plan?

3. Do we spread our arms wide and look above and say Why god, oh why...what has this man done or why test me?

Any choice you made, it can and will all be spun to support the right action was performed according to god's plan.

The man will die but it will be god's plan and some money will be raised for his kids to go to college or the local squad to get rescue divers funded.

The witness will perform a rescue and of course it will be god who gave him the strength, willpower, determination to do it (even if he was a SEAL).

The witness will attempt a rescue and die along with the victim but both will be hailed as great men who never let a challenge slip by and they have now gone home to god (per his calling).

I just wish we could skip the bullshit and just fall over when it is time to "go home"...why all the drama in the first place?

[tniuqs]

Curtesy of PNN news http://www.paramedic-network-news.com/

** A Sunday morning water rescue attempt in New Jersey has cost the life of an EMT. WPVI (August 29) said Princeton rescuer Michael Kenwood succumbed to injuries incurred after being swept away by fast moving rapids brought on by Hurricane Irene. According to the newspaper, Kenwood was a member of the swift water rescue team. He had been dispatched to a vehicle on a flooded waterway to determine if any occupants were still inside. Told to stand down when conditions became too dangerous, Kenwood apparently lost his grip as an attempt was made to move him to safety. The vehicle was later determined to have been abandoned.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/06/30/bc-sar-drowning-kootenay.html

A dive team has recovered the body of a 29-year-old search and rescue volunteer who drowned Wednesday during efforts to check a submerged car on the fast-flowing Goat River in southeast B.C. Sheilah Sweatman, of Ymir, a small community near Nelson, died after falling from a boat, and is the first search and rescue volunteer in B.C. to be killed in the line of duty."At about 4:15 p.m. during the course of their search efforts, utilizing swift-water line equipment and a swift-water craft, one of the search and rescue members went overboard into the river and did not surface," the RCMP said in a release Wednesday, before the body was found.

I have some personal information that I cannot disclose in regards to the Workplace BC investigation .. I will say if you do not have a means of eliminating "all hazards" then just do not go.

[Happiness]

Surprising enough even though we live on the ocean we dont have alot of water rescue or drownings. Most of us are very aware of undercurrents and tides and teach our children where they can and can not swim.

2 quick stories though

2 town alcoholics were sitting on the Government dock drink Vodka. There is a bit left and the one holding it say's its his, the other grabs it and throws it into the ocean and say ok then go get it. He did, and this guy couldn't swim, had polio as a child and was pissed. Lucky for him there was a bystander that jumped in and got him. Personally knowing the tide etc I would not have and the ocean is very cold.

We have a slough here that is just a big mud pot when the tide is out. A silly boy decided that he was going to try and cross it, (instead of the bridge that was built for that purpose) Half way through he got stuck to his waist and started to cry for help as now the tide is starting to come in. We only had the ff at the time and they tried everything they could think of to get him out with out causeing damage. It came to a point that they had dive teams there ready with tanks incase it became that dier. They manage finally to be able to get a winch and with a dog harness pulled him out. He was still bruised up but not dead. I also do not go and play in the mud.

I had made the choice early in my career that I am not rescue, I am the one after rescue and I have always made sure that my scene is as safe as possible, if there is any question I dont go in. I do this because yes I want to go home to my family and also I know what they do to people in the back of the ambulance and I don't want to become a patient while on a call.