Are some rescues just not worth it?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Squint, it's all your fault.

[tniuqs]

That is what my ex always claimed as well.

[Just Plain Ruff]

My son tells me that also

[akflightmedic]

My apologies AK, it was one of Squint's replies that he had struck through part of my post. Again my apologies.

Ok, one hypothetical question. If God didn't exist prior to those 1000's of Gods, could they not be one in the same? For arguments sake and my being obstinate - couldn't those God's that came before the Christian god, be the creators of the Christian God therefore negating your stance that God did not come out of nothing therefore he does have his own creator?

Food for thought or discussion:

❝There is no god, and that’s the simple truth. If every trace of any single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again.❞ - Penn Jillette

[tniuqs]

Is that the Penn of Penn & Teller ?

[Happiness]

AK I have a question for you Were you brought up with a certain religion as a child. You remind me of one of my best friends that was raised JW, raised her kids as JW until as she calls it she saw the light (that light was her going unconsious as her JW ex-husband was choking the life out of her) She is now a devout atheist and sometimes she is just mean about it. I have found that people that are that strong in being an atheist have had a traumatic experience. With me it was a priest telling me never to enter his church again as I was a product of the Devil.(all I did was faint while in the choir). I am a fence sitter on this subject but would like to think that there is something after death.

I go to church 2 time a year and if our priest asks me to go I will. I go to weddings and to funerals so I guess in the most part I hope Im going somewhere but who knows.

Ruff I have a question for you also. If you believe in Adam and Eve were the creators of us all, did we all come from incest. I did ask a religious person and was told, oh the bible talks of there being others? Just wanted to know your thoughts on that.

[akflightmedic]

Penn Jillete PHD in theology? I don't think so. Using him to discuss religion is like citing Gomer Pyle for ALS.

So instead of discussing what was actually said, it is easier to attempt to discredit the messenger and totally remove focus from the words.

Regardless of who said it or who is worthy of saying it--it is valid point and you can easily discuss, dispute or counter the WORDS. Who said you need a PhD in theology to discuss religion or share opinions, and this particular opinion makes a LOT of sense.

AK I have a question for you Were you brought up with a certain religion as a child. You remind me of one of my best friends that was raised JW, raised her kids as JW until as she calls it she saw the light (that light was her going unconsious as her JW ex-husband was choking the life out of her) She is now a devout atheist and sometimes she is just mean about it. I have found that people that are that strong in being an atheist have had a traumatic experience. With me it was a priest telling me never to enter his church again as I was a product of the Devil.(all I did was faint while in the choir). I am a fence sitter on this subject but would like to think that there is something after death.

I go to church 2 time a year and if our priest asks me to go I will. I go to weddings and to funerals so I guess in the most part I hope Im going somewhere but who knows.

Ruff I have a question for you also. If you believe in Adam and Eve were the creators of us all, did we all come from incest. I did ask a religious person and was told, oh the bible talks of there being others? Just wanted to know your thoughts on that.

That is a very common misconception regarding atheists...those of the faith always assume something bad had to happen which I find hilarious. They also state well you dont know god, or you dont know him like I do, or you havent truly opened yourself to him. Hmmm, thanks a ton. It all boils down to me having a brain filled with reason and logic. People are good without god, millions are every day. People are happy and moral without god. Morals are independent of religion, this is a fact.

I am entirely happy with my life, I feel whole, I love my fellow humans, I care and I give. But no religious person will accept me making those claims because there is "something missing".

I have studied many religions and have stated in previous threads one of my favorite subjects is history and religious history in particular. The more I read, the more I learned, that further I got away from any organized religion. It simply does not compute. I can quote bible verses all day long, I can make people feel warm and fuzzy with total bull shit...if my moral compass were titled, I could make a fortune as a evangelist. I have that personality and could make so many feel loved and blessed as they supported my lavish lifestyle. However I choose not to abuse my talents and instead apply them and a lot of hard work to my business.

I was the first person in my family to be baptized at age 12 at MY request. I had been attending church, was an acolyte, loved it. I started teaching Sunday school at age 14, went to the retreats, regular church. But I kept reading, I kept studying because ti all fascinated me. And as stated above, the more I learned, the less I believed because none of it computes. Throw in a dash of psychology along with the religious history lessons and boom...your eyes are opened.

However I also acknowledge it is human nature to always take the easy path. It is hard work to read and learn especially about religion. Most people just like to be spoon fed and take no responsibility for their religious education. It feels good to believe. I counter those who need it have way more empty lives than I do. I appreciate every single day and experience as this is it. For me there is no do over. I will not spend my life preparing for an after life. I am going to enjoy this one right here, right now. One of the greatest events to come of a christians life is the rapture. They want it to come. They want death and destruction on everyone but themselves so they can ascend to heaven...seems a little crazy to me to wish that on anyone...

Regarding the Adam and Eve question, most apologetics will state "that was the old testament" or "that is not meant to be literal"....but then other parts they will say "It is meant to be literal"...anyways, it is always swung whichever way is needed for that current discussion, but the fact remains, the rules of interpretation are all man made as I have yet to see a Manual of Bible Interp 101 written and authorized by god.

[akflightmedic]

Really don't care about Penn. In every other disscussion one would expect that the references would be qualified. Why would I want to disscuss Penn's opinion?

You are still avoiding what was said. You are being intellectually dishonest by continuing to focus on Penn instead of what he said. He is just as qualified to give an opinion on religion as I am...unless you are suggesting I have no voice here either. And if that goes for me, then that goes for everyone which leads me back to an earlier point of religious dissension/discussion/questioning not being tolerated followed by heavy censorship and control of the people. The dark ages were called that for a reason...one of the most religious times of our history ironically was one of the worst intellectually and artistically speaking. Everything came to a crawl and so much knowledge and skills were lost. Education was non existent nor encouraged...

[Happiness]

Thanks AK for answering my question in such depth. So I guess I worded my question wrong I shouldn't have put bad in the sentence, it should have read "did something happen to you". You do have a religious back ground and by the sounds of it a very intellectual one at that. And thank you for not becomming a evangalist as I dont think I could see you flinging a light saber around up on stage .

I personally luv Penn and Teller, they just make me laugh. I saw Penn not long ago on a night show promoting his new book about athiesm. That shows discussion reminds me of the one with Ruff and AK. At one point Penn said "If its ok for you to belive, then its ok for me to not"

Faith is personal thing, and I think everyone has it, but my faith is not always yours and thats what people have to understand.

[akflightmedic]

it should have read "did something happen to you".

No worries. I am always up for a great discussion. But again, even with the rewording above...it is no different that saying to a lesbian "Whats wrong, who was the man who made you become this" or saying to the gay guy "What did some chick dump you, did your father not love you, etc".

The people of the opposing position or thought always assume that something had to happen (usually negative) to make a person that way. It is this illogical stance which drives me bat shit.