RN's in EMS

[usalsfyre]

The "PHRN" just pisses me off. I want an IHEMT-P certification. If you want to play prehospitally, go get the education, the same as you argue we should have to do.

why is is so improtant to have an RN on flight?

here we have a doctor and paramedic or maybe just 2 paras...afterall the field is the area that is foreign to most RNs

In the US it's important because many paramedics have never laid hands on ICU level patients.

[Kiwiology]

The "PHRN" just pisses me off....If you want to play prehospitally, go get the education, the same as you argue we should have to do.

I submit that by virtue of education even a two year AAS RN is a far more qualified to practice prehospital medicine than a Paramedic in the US where the Paramedic may have received as little as sixteen weeks of "education" plus a few hundred hours of clinical skills (cough Houston Fire Department cough)

Does that mean you can just throw an ICU or ED RN out into an ambulance and they will be sufficiently dexterous without additional role-specific skill consolidation? Maybe not, but maybe you never know ... I can teach a 10 year old to put a drip into somebody and even I can shove a plastic tube through the right hole fairly easily.

[BlueSkies]

Kiwimedic

No way a brand new AAS RN or a BSN will be able to step onto an ambulance and function. By virtue of education only as you say...seriously? Come on now...lay off the sauce

[flamingemt2011]

Cant have it both ways, ever heard of the BRIDGE program for medics to go to RN, it is not a 4 year course ? But I agree with you that a new RN would have problems, as most new RNs have problems functioning in a hospital, but a few mandatory third rides would fix that.

Get ready for it, they are coming, as hospitals continue to struggle in this economy, nursing wages will freeze or decrease.

[Kiwiology]

No way a brand new AAS RN or a BSN will be able to step onto an ambulance and function.

When did I ever say "brand new"?

By virtue of education only as you say...seriously? Come on now...lay off the sauce

I don't see a whole lot of Paramedic programs at college level requiring basic chemistry, biology, psychology, anatomy/physiology or English as a pre-requisite for entry to the professional program; yes there are some that do but all nursing programs require them, and most likely some other classes as well.

Which qualification does not require any college education again? Is it Nurse or Paramedic?

Point out to me again why the concept of somebody who has much greater education in basic and clinical science being more qualified to practice is somehow incorrect?

[hatelilpeepees]

I agree with you on a certain level KIWI, generally more education = better employee. But I have seen many "smart" EMT/Medics (have college degree in other field) struggle in EMS, because a good bit of the time the emt/medic who has more common sense versus education is the better provider.

Kind of like the Harvard trained Cardiologist who has no bedside manner (people skills), but can tell you everything you want and don't want to know about the heart.

[usalsfyre]

I submit that by virtue of education even a two year AAS RN is a far more qualified to practice prehospital medicine than a Paramedic in the US where the Paramedic may have received as little as sixteen weeks of "education" plus a few hundred hours of clinical skills (cough Houston Fire Department cough)

Does that mean you can just throw an ICU or ED RN out into an ambulance and they will be sufficiently dexterous without additional role-specific skill consolidation? Maybe not, but maybe you never know ... I can teach a 10 year old to put a drip into somebody and even I can shove a plastic tube through the right hole fairly easily.

I'm fairly dismayed by the state of EMS education as well, but that doesn't mean we should just invite another profession to come play in our bailiwick because. How would NZ medics feel if the nurses there came up with a PHRN credential?

I have the same, or more educational background as many RNs with the exception of college level microbiology. Perhaps the 16 week medics don't care, but those of us with a college based background should.

For the record I'm not huge on quickie bridge courses either direction. Perhaps bridge courses can exist, but should include a the "core" of the education for either role. While there's considerable knowledge overlap, nurses vs paramedics application of said knowledge is hugh different. In knowledge application a paramedic is far more similar to a mid-level provider than a nurse (which highlights how undereducated we really are).

[Kiwiology]

From memory (and I could be wrong) isn't Pennsylvania the only state to offer a PHRN level?

An RN here can become a Paramedic in 18 months, they just have to complete the Paramedic specific University papers.

There is a place for appropriately experienced and specialised RNs in the prehospital environment; critical care transfers and aeromedical retrieval spring to mind as two appropriate areas. There is also increasing focus of the Ambulance Service on primary care and "respond and refer" rather than "take everybody to hospital" (not that we did that anyway) so in the next few years there will probably be a role for an Ambulance Nurse Practitioner or something there abouts; sort of like the Emergency Care Practitioner in the UK.

I was making an observation, I didn't say it was what should happen.

[chbare]

Several states such as Nevada have an analogus credential for nurses.

[paramedicmike]

I agree with you on a certain level KIWI, generally more education = better employee. But I have seen many "smart" EMT/Medics (have college degree in other field) struggle in EMS, because a good bit of the time the emt/medic who has more common sense versus education is the better provider.

Kind of like the Harvard trained Cardiologist who has no bedside manner (people skills), but can tell you everything you want and don't want to know about the heart.

For every book smart provider with no common sense there are just as many (if not more due to the vast number of non-college based EMS training programs) "non-book smart" providers with no common sense. Using common sense as the distinguishing characteristic between formally and firehouse educated providers is really kind of silly.

Also, people skills and common sense are two completely different things. You can't replace one with the other.