DwayneEMTP Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Ahhh...so you weren't really looking for discussion after all but a pulpit to make that point.... I still disagree, for the reason that you ignored above. And should you choose to follow your conscience, instead of accepted medical standards, I hope that you'll report back from your new, non EMS career after your patients sue you into the poor house. Dwayne
flamingemt2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Author Posted October 22, 2011 So if you have an incompetent medic in your service, like the one described in the story, his job security is more important than the patient's right to receive quality care ????? How do you determine which mistakes to hide and which ones to disclose if you do not agree with my "report everything" view ??? Do you just base it on the ones that won't get you fired ? I don't think so Dwayne, I have read your posts for awhile, and you are better than that.
RaceMedic Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) im going to take a chance here... stepping in to traffic... While i completely understand your feeliing the need for total full disclosure on mistakes but that is just not smart. The receiving Doctor will need to know what has and has not been done, mistake or not. He/She will need to know what to do to correct or reverse whats been done if needed as well as how to formulate his treatment plan regarding medicine interactions and so on. To totally disclose to the family and/or Patient you are committing career and financial suicide. Go ahead and tell the PT and family then go home and wait for the process servers to bring your subpena and phone call from the lawyers. Also going to the family with out first consulting your service director and/or medical director you may also be forfeiting legal backing and support from your service. If you do not follow procedures and policy of your department or service you will find yourself on your own with out a job, income or lawyer for defense of your actions in court. Also chances are no other lawyer is going to touch your case if your known for just taking things in to your own hands. This isn't the good ole days when you could say " i'm sorry i did blah blah, It was a mistake" and have the response " ohhh i understand its ok" and part ways with a handshake. The is a sue happy "ME First" generation. If they can take something from someone and not have to earn it themselves they will. If you don't believe it look at all the welfare fraud and system abuse thats happening everyday. Not to mention the mess in Houston TX with Medicare fraud. http://www.ems1.com/...ayers-millions/ I promise you that if you follow proper channels and disclose inforamtion to whom it needs to be disclosed to things will flow as they should. Yes you maybe punished, you may have to do follow-up training, you may still even lose your job. You also may protect yourself and your service from a needless lawsuit over something that may have been an honest and relatively harmless mistake. Look at your policies and if you can not find it ask your director. Race *edited cause something didn't make sense, not sure that it does now but what the hell* Edited October 22, 2011 by RaceMedic
flamingemt2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Author Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) So again, your fear of losing your job justifies not letting the patient know that you screwed up ? So again, where do you draw the line, because every disclosure could result in a lawsuit, so do you never disclose any errors to the patient ? I am shocked, most everyone in this forum seemed to have such high moral standards. Now the standard is "as long as it does not hurt me". You all chastised HLPP in the obese patient on the floor thread because she might hurt someone, now you are saying it is OK to hurt someone and not disclose it because you might lose your job; i believe many of you said you would rather lose your job and protect the patient rather than do an unsafe act because your supervisor ordered it. Hypocricy 101 !!!!!!!!!!!! Edited October 22, 2011 by flamingemt2011
RaceMedic Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Yea i figured you were trolling ... I did not say not to disclose it. I said do it through proper channels. 1. If you lose your job over an honest mistake and you happen to be a great medic and huge asset to the medical field in general, your no longer of any use to anyone cause your no longer a medic with a huge mar on your record. Your one of those that runs through an accident scene to the patient aren't you ? 2. No one orders me to do a treatment or transport in a certain way unless they are going to take over patient care. supervisor or not. It is my patient i am the one responsible. 3. my report tells all. it is after all a binding legal document, even mistakes are documented by me. The people that need to know right then will know what has happened. Basically you are going to go in and add to a patients stress level possibly causing another health issue for your "moral obligation" to tell the truth right then and there ? In your "mistake" you lied to your partner about what happened in the truck with the lidocaine drip. Your really looking out for him aren't you ? You realize that he is as liable for what happens as you are ? Get off your moral high horse and join the rest of us in the real world. Think before you act. If your service is continually paying out 1 million dollar plus lawsuits cause you decide you made a mistake and need to come clean, how will the effect your services budget ? how many things will be cut from the budget line items like that new unit your service needs ? well one lawsuit and your stuck in the old one for another 5 yrs at least. then maybe the board decides that medics are too risky to have on staff and busts the service down to BLS only ? you just cost how many jobs and took away ALS coverage from your service area.. There is more at stake than your moral do goody have to be totally honest cause it makes me feel good about myself feelings. These are far off results but not out of the realm of possibility. That is why there are policy's and procedures in place for things that happen. good luck to you Race Edited October 22, 2011 by RaceMedic
flamingemt2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Author Posted October 22, 2011 AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I admitted I was wrong, why am i a troll because I point out a serious problem in our industry ? You kill a patient, hide it to protect your job, and you are somehow supposed to be respected for doing so ?
RaceMedic Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Yes i am a hypocrite, I also do not allow my daughters to do things i was allowed to do as a kid. I was allowed to drink alcohol at family functions, picnics, weddings ... ect. there is another example. I tell my patients they need to lose weight and cut out jink food, right after i scarfed down a quarter pounder, fries and a coke. I venture to say you have done the same ? How about smoking ? you smoke and tell your patients they need to quit ? I mentioned alcohol. Do you drink? you know thats bad for you. i bet you also tell people they need to not drink dont you? Where do you draw the line ? Call me a hypocrite, your right and i own it !!! Race AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I admitted I was wrong, why am i a troll because I point out a serious problem in our industry ? You kill a patient, hide it to protect your job, and you are somehow supposed to be respected for doing so ? Who said anything about killing anyone ? And i'm not looking for respect for anything. I do a job that's it. Never claimed to be a hero or a role model. You admitted you were wrong ... great happy for you. But do not confuse the complete withholding of information ( exactly what you did) with disclosing it through the proper channels ... Go back and re read my post i never said withhold information i said report it to the ER doc and to your director first. Race
flamingemt2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Author Posted October 22, 2011 But not to the patient !!!!!!!!!1
RaceMedic Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Do what you think you have to do. I have admitted my hypocrisy and clearly stated what i do in the situation you stated. The only real answer here is to be more aware of whats going on and make sure everything is in place to prevent a mistake from happening. thus making this entire conversation a mute point. Race
DwayneEMTP Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 There is no benefit to reporting directly medical and procedural information that the majority have no way to understand. That doesn't benefit them, it only makes you feel like a hero. Though not for a second do I believe that you actually have any intention of reporting anything to anyone. I can say with no reservations whatsoever that I have reported every known error that I've made to the receiving docs and nurses, though I'm sure that I've made plenty that I'm unaware of. I don't report the odds contracting a sexually transmitted disease/unwanted pregnancy to rape victims during transport, I don't explain to children the state of the foster care system when choosing to involve social services in a call, and I don't torment patients with oversight responsibilities to ease my troubled conscience. There is a reason that things are done the way that they are done despite your need to try and wrap the entire process up into a healthcare wide system designed exclusively to protect stupid medics. And if I believed as you claim to, though I doubt actually do, I would still follow the process based on the likelihood that a gazillion years of moral/ethical/educated/committed Drs and nurses and psychologists and philosophers before me have likely come up with a better plan than I'm able to based on a few years of EMS service. Dwayne
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