Cameras are prohibited and pictures will get you fired

[craig]

Whilst waiting for the helo weith doctor on board to arrive, Pt was trapped in wrecked upturned car by legs.

Obvious # to legs with lots of the red stuff flowing about.

I could not get into area to see what damage, camera on phone however could get in with a flash to take pic.

Took snaps of injury whilst Pt was still in situ and showed doctor when helo arrived. that way we knew what we were dealing with.

Erased the pics when job completed.

[Bernhard]

"A picture is worth a thousand words,": yes, but only the words you have to describe what is IN exactly this picture. A picture can't tell, what's not on it. So, should medics really care about scenes, lights/shadows, camera resolution, angles, distance, color, details and so on? If I had the eyes for such things, I would be a better photographer but not a better medic.

Patient care should be based on actual patient status, this includes the event. Mechanism of injury (and Dwayne: you're not alone!) could be well descripted by the medics if they actually pay attention to it - it's not about every detail of a crashed car but about some significant technical issues: cause of the crash, other vehicle/tree/structure, direction of the crash, airbags deployed (belt worn? helmet worn?), length of flight/turn over/sideways, crashed steering wheel, dent/cracked front window in head height, head rest available/crashed, seat depositioned, entrapped/enclosed/thrown out, injuries of the other patients involved and such. It's rare that a real treatment decision could be based on the picture of a crash - I tend to believe that when this is the case either the medics did a very bad description (or pay no attention at scene) or the ED is somewhat ignorant. And if they want to see some of this out of curiosity, then they should get out to the street.

If there is some chance for a hidden head injury by mechanism of the crash I would treat it on scene as such and would expect ED to continue treatment or ruling it out with their tools.

BTW, with modern cars you can't tell the impact on the passengers by severity of destruction very well, as long as the passengers compartment stays intact (and it may not look like it did).

And yes, talking about lights/shadows, camera angles and so on: even my family pictures are a mess.

[Richard B the EMT]

If a picture indicating MOI (Method Of Injury) can be taken without taking time away from patient care, perhaps.

Did I just read that a newbie in the ER was taking photos of injuries, possibly revealing the patient's identities, with intent to post the "interesting" pictures on the internet? And that said individual was hiding the photos on his or her cell phone? Not only would I have "scrubbed" that phone back to original factory settings, but I, if a supervisor, would not only have fired the individual, I'd have whatever licence/certification the individual had be revoked by the issuing agency. They'd never work in this town, county, state/province, or country in that capacity again. Vindictive? yes, but with cause.

Yes, there might be a good place for photos, as long as the patient's identity can still be obscured.

There is a story, that snopes verified (can't find the link right now), where a young lady died in a car crash, and every couple of weeks, someone sends the photo of the lady, dead in the car, to the lady's parents.

[Just Plain Ruff]

If a picture indicating MOI (Method Of Injury) can be taken without taking time away from patient care, perhaps.

Did I just read that a newbie in the ER was taking photos of injuries, possibly revealing the patient's identities, with intent to post the "interesting" pictures on the internet? And that said individual was hiding the photos on his or her cell phone? Not only would I have "scrubbed" that phone back to original factory settings, but I, if a supervisor, would not only have fired the individual, I'd have whatever licence/certification the individual had be revoked by the issuing agency. They'd never work in this town, county, state/province, or country in that capacity again. Vindictive? yes, but with cause.

Yes, there might be a good place for photos, as long as the patient's identity can still be obscured.

There is a story, that snopes verified (can't find the link right now), where a young lady died in a car crash, and every couple of weeks, someone sends the photo of the lady, dead in the car, to the lady's parents.

Yes Richard that was my story on the pictures in the er.

But he was a IT consultant on a project I was associated with. He had never been in the er before other than as a patient. I wanted to beat his ass but that wouldn't have been good. So I let the hospital deal with him and they did quite severely as well as his consulting company did the same.

[DFIB]

Any "real" EMS provider has been drilled with the value and sanctity of patient confidentiality, trust and privacy. I take a lot of pictures and use them at the transfer of care. Any provider who would display their patients for a morbid rush or to prove how heroic or tough he/she is is a disgrace to our profession and should be ousted.

All tools have a place when their usefulness and limitations are properly understood including cameras, oximeters, glucometers and all the other tools of our trade.

It is sad that EMS tends to be negatively reactionary to circumstance. One misuse or abuse can easily limit these tools use for us all. So very sad that the protocol writers so often descend to the lowest maturity denominator in reaction to the poorest examples of prehospital care givers.

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[Richard B the EMT]

One misuse or abuse can easily limit these tools use for us all. So very sad that the protocol writers so often descend to the lowest maturity denominator in reaction to the poorest examples of prehospital care givers.

It is an unfortunate thing, indeed, that no matter how high we soar, or potentially can soar, we get tied down to the launch platform due to these fools who cause the need for a lowest "common" denominator. Consider the crew on the UFO who judge the intellegence of our entire planet on the actions of the Forrest Gump movie character.

[craig]

but Forrest was an all American football player, a war hero, Medal of Honour recipiant, international table tennis player, long distance runner of acclaim and a go-zillionaire from catching prawns..............much better than a lowly paramedic,(lol) no matter what any little green man might think................

[jdpackaging]

we tried that here the supervisors here would show up and photo the scene and take it to the hospital to show the doc. cameras were property of the service and only used for such

[treaux]

This is like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" slogan. It's not the taking of the pictures that is such a bad thing. As has already been said, it's intent and use. Where I work, our resources are plentiful. I'll often arrive on major trauma scenes to find 6 people already working on extricating the pt from the scene. My job is really just oversight and assessing the MOI while the pt is extricated. I'll often snap a photo for the trauma center. Every trauma doctor I have given report to has appreciated a picture of the scene to help them build an idea of the MOI. We take for granted that we are there and can see it ourselves, but we are just the first step in a long line of communication. I have also snapped photos to document the lack of damage in so called "Allstate-itis" calls where the patient is crying 10/10 neck and back pain when there is not so much as a scratch on their car after a 2mph fender bender. I have taken pictures of unsafe houses and disarray when reporting to social services or CPS. They really appreciate having a photo before sending out a case worker.

At this point I have many photos of many scenes. I keep them all very secure on a closed network just like our HIPAA security standards at work. I occasionally use them for education and building scenarios when teaching or precepting, and have found them quite useful for training purposes.

Things to remember:

- NEVER EVER EVER publish them on the internet with a public link unless you have obliterated any identifying information. Remember that all modern photos taken on digital cameras have EXIF data embedded that includes the exact date and time of the photo and possibly even GPS coordinates. Photoshop or Lightroom can help prepare images for the web and strip all data attached.

- Always avoid photographing the patient. I am also a photographer, but I hate having my picture taken. Aside from violating HIPAA in so many ways, it's just impolite to take someone's picture without their consent. Some EMS people have no manners

- Lastly, do not email them. Email is not a secure way to transfer anything important or private. Use flash drives or something encrypted when transferring.

- Be respectful. I think this is the biggest problem here. Lawsuits come about when people post pictures up for shock factor or entertainment. Would you really want that done to yourself or your family? Photos can be a great tool in EMS, but must be used responsibly.

Edited December 28, 2011 by treaux