Hey Baby, You Look Sexy In That C-Collar

[Lone Star]

While I don't agree that the phone number is a violation of HIPAA, I readily agree that it was unprofessional for the medic in question to obtain and use the patient's phone number for social reasons.

I've run into several people that I've either treated on scene, or during my clinical rotations...(the pony tail is a dead give away). I've never attempted (or even considered) asking the females out on a date or other social event.

Morals and ethics: Some people got 'em; and, (quite obviously, this medic) some don't....

I'm not the greatest looking guy, but I have been 'come onto) by a couple female patients. They were all told "I'm flattered that you're interested, but I make it a point to never date my patients.". In my opinion, this is not only immoral; but unethical as well.

I'll never be looked up to as a great 'moral compass', but one MUST adhere to the gudelines of professionalism in order to be taken seriously as a professional. Unfortunately, it's guys like this (and yes, there are gals out there too) that are working hard to undo every step forward that we take.

[Eydawn]

Situation A: Phone number- unless he has photographic memory, and he took it home written with the patient's name, he's in bad trouble. We've been taught in nursing school that we can't even write patient initials on our case studies, especially if it's in conjunction with room number and hospital. Unless there's some facility appropriate reason for him to be given the number (not take it of his own accord) and follow up with the patient, he shouldn't have it.

Situation B: Runs into someone in the grocery store- as long as they're two consenting adults, I have no issue with it. Is it skeezy? Sure, but a lot of ways people hook up initially are kind of skeezy. As long as he didn't stalk her and figure out what grocery store she goes to and it's totally coincidental, call it fate or something but I make no judgments on it.

I've been treated by friends. Close friends. Does that mean I can't be their friend anymore, because they know what my lungs sound like when I'm buggered? Does that mean that our close friend relationship is somehow non-kosher? Not in my opinion...

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[DFIB]

There was this one time after a sports accident that this really hot medic chick evaluated my injuries. I wish she had stolen my number!

Fixed my ankle but broke my heart!

Edited November 14, 2011 by DFIB

[DwayneEMTP]

LOL, DFIB you're a dork.

Wendy, I also had that thought. I think that if he didn't write the number down and had to go back to a report to get it then there could be a violation there. Not sure, but it feels right. I don't think that he had any right to revisit that report once submitted. Though I'm thinking that again, that violation may fall on his employers and their process for protecting it instead of him...not sure though.

Great thread...who'd a thunk it'd be so friggin' complicated?

Dwayne

[akflightmedic]

I just stumbled into this one and am glad by page 2 people were correcting the HIPAA clarification.

Man, I am torn on this issue because I will break it down on a personal level and not just "I heard this one time..." or some other hypothetical BS. I agree him calling the patient to ask her out is unethical, however if there was mutual interest between the two during the call and then he called to "check on her" and she led the conversation to a point where maybe they should meet, even with subtle hints from him, I am not that upset. Again, you can cite all the rules you want, but we are talking about humans and biology. If his sole intent was to booty call, yeh it is problematic, but...

You see, why I am torn on the issue is because I have BTDT. I was a paramedic just before my 19th birthday. I worked in the busiest county in the entire state which happened to be a beach resort/tourist mecca. I had spring breakers, summer breakers, winter breakers, there was fresh meat all year long aside from all the local talent.

There were many calls which were "BS" in nature (sunburn, twisted ankles, 2 mph collisions on the boulevard) all situations where the injured parties were not in emotional distress and seeking a hero. On these calls, mutual attraction occurred, sometimes flirting occurred from the injured as well. Sometimes the flirting would be playfully reciprocated. That is real life, that is what happens. We can all act holier than thou, but until you are truly in a situation where there are chemicals flowing on both sides and not one side misreading the others intent, it is difficult to say what you will or will not do.

Again, creeping with the phone number was over the line but if it was all set up beforehand, if there was mutual attractions, and if he said...can I call you and check on you and she said sure...well again a non issue in my book.

I have actually dated a few patients from my younger days. I do not regret a single one of them and at no time did I take advantage of the situation. One in particular was in a low speed MVC and her friends talked her into getting checked out. These were the days before selective spinal immobilization so a board and collar was guaranteed. We had almost a 45 minute slow transport due to heavy beach traffic. There was nothing to do so we talked...and while we talked we clicked. We set a date and we went out.

Having been in the shoes and walked miles in them is the reason why I can not be as decisive as several of you have been. of course, I am always willing to explore those gray areas and debate the philosophical side of issues as well....not the hard and fast rules, but the human element...something none of us can control or predict.

[DFIB]

LOL, DFIB you're a dork.

I am an irreparable romanitc! Nah, married to long for that.

Dwayne

[Richard B the EMT]

As to being treated by your colleagues, I've had some experience in that.

Years ago, one of the VAC junior members mentioned that she'd like to have me as a boyfriend. As I had then just gotten involved with my Lady J, whom you've read of on others of my postings, or on the few times I've been in the chatroom, I pulled her aside, and advised her that she was making me uncomfortable with that statement. Besides, she was under legal age, and I didn't want to go that direction.

I must mention that she was one of the few Juniors who we felt could be, under close supervision and scrutiny, allowed to "ride", but SHE didn't feel ready to do so, and declined.

Jump forward a decade, plus. On the FDNY EMS unit, I threw my back out, again (!) on a bad lift, and went into probably an anxiety attack as well. Due to the "chest pains", they rolled a Medic unit, and she ended up being MY caretaker for the trip to the hospital.

Side mention: she's divorced, but I suspect is in a new relationship. Good luck to her, as I see her when she's on duty at the coffee shop, and both Lady J and I say "Hi".

[flamingemt2011]

So did we make any headway on the HIPAA issue ??????????

[Just Plain Ruff]

So did we make any headway on the HIPAA issue ??????????

Nope, not a peep from the OCR. My contact is out of the loop through the end of the week.

[Vorenus]

Situation A: Phone number- unless he has photographic memory, and he took it home written with the patient's name, he's in bad trouble. We've been taught in nursing school that we can't even write patient initials on our case studies, especially if it's in conjunction with room number and hospital. Unless there's some facility appropriate reason for him to be given the number (not take it of his own accord) and follow up with the patient, he shouldn't have it.

I don`t have a clue when it comes to HiPAA, but I feel, that even if he had a photographic memory (BTW: you don`t need one to memorize facts really fast, just the right technique), it would still be wrong to use the telephone number, if he got it only through to him being the attending medic.

That said - just a nicely phrased question at the end of the call would have made it so easy for him (or not, depending on the answer ).