rock_shoes Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I'm dismayed. The reason I say this is that many of the EMT/Medic students I have had the pleasure/displeasure of meeting and precepting have all asked a similar type of question. They are wanting to get the more advanced books that give a broader explanation of disease process, medical issues and basically what medical school texts they should be using to broaden their horizons and base knowledge on. What I have seen consistently is that the students don't really have a firm grasp on the basics that their paramedic textbook or EMT textbook's are trying to give them. Actually Ruff, all three of the textbooks I suggested are from my Paramedic (ACP or EMT-P in Alberta) program. The typical paramedic textbooks to which you're referring are what I used when I did my PCP program (think EMT-I). I realise education standards can be drastically different from one place to the next but the typical SOP isn’t. What’s wrong with suggesting material that should without question improve a practitioner’s assessment skills & overall knowledge base? A lot of what you said had to do with new students doing poor overall assessments. I suggested Bates which is entirely about patient assessment.
hatelilpeepees Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I agree, with one exception, I forget the actual title of the book, but that big red Emergency Physician' book, is a very good read, as it takes you step by step as to how physician's assess, diagnose, and treat their patients. I have used it several times to develop training topics so that EMTs and medics can go one step above what they know. For instance, we frequently pick up patients in Nursing Homes or Urgent Care Clinics where lab work has already been performed, to be able to look at that tool and use it in your assessment is useful, for example right side pain with a high white count steers you one way, low B/P and a low H&H might steer you another way.
Just Plain Ruff Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Actually Ruff, all three of the textbooks I suggested are from my Paramedic (ACP or EMT-P in Alberta) program. The typical paramedic textbooks to which you're referring are what I used when I did my PCP program (think EMT-I). I realise education standards can be drastically different from one place to the next but the typical SOP isn’t. What’s wrong with suggesting material that should without question improve a practitioner’s assessment skills & overall knowledge base? A lot of what you said had to do with new students doing poor overall assessments. I suggested Bates which is entirely about patient assessment. "What’s wrong with suggesting material that should without question improve a practitioner’s assessment skills & overall knowledge base?" nothing is wrong with that thought process if the student has mastered the information in their textbook. But what is wrong with that thougth process is if the student hasn't mastered the info in their class book and they are using the texts listed as their information base. If they don't know the material in their basic text book then how can we be sure they are actually learning from the advanced texts. Its just like putting a student with a remedial knowledge of college algebra into a advanced calculus or trigonometry class. if they don't have the basics down how the hell are they gonna pass the advanced stuff? Rock you are right and I accept the criticism but what I don't accept is emt students trying to become paramedics when they don't even have the basics of being an EMT down. I don't accept is medic students trying to become doctors when they in all reality aren't even good paramedic students. There is nothing wrong with attempting to get a better grasp on things but what distresses me the most is the medic student who is just getting by with a 75 or 80 percent(of course that's a good grade in some US schools) and they are wanting to go get a physician level text book in order to "help me grasp what I'm missing". I find that getting these students a mentor or put them in a study group does so much more to their grade average and their understanding of the material than any medical school level textbook ever will. We all say that you have to crawl in order to walk, but it seems that the majority of students think they are above the crawling or toddling stage and think they can go right into the 4 minute marathon stage. Edited November 23, 2011 by Ruffems
Kiwiology Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I have to agree with Ruff, if somebody can't grasp the material in their ambo book (probably because they're not given anywhere enough bloody time and they can't speel no goodz) throwing them a textbook aimed at somebody who has a significant understanding of basic and clinical science is going to spin their ass out even more. That said, I refuse to tutor my students (subjects, victims, whatever...) from standard Paramedic books because they are absolute rubbish written for dumbshits, firefighters, um ... yeah
Just Plain Ruff Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I have to agree with Ruff, if somebody can't grasp the material in their ambo book (probably because they're not given anywhere enough bloody time and they can't speel no goodz) throwing them a textbook aimed at somebody who has a significant understanding of basic and clinical science is going to spin their ass out even more. That said, I refuse to tutor my students (subjects, victims, whatever...) from standard Paramedic books because they are absolute rubbish written for dumbshits, firefighters, um ... yeah I make sure that during the ride time that my students have with me, we go over what they are having problems with. Sort of a lunch and learn. When I was working EMS full time(80 per week) I had several students that booked blocks of shifts with me. I gave them my email address and had them send me questions that they were having issues with. Be it skills, content or other issues, we would go over those issues and I'd help them grasp what they needed. I also had my students work together in study groups one night a week either at a local restaurant or coffee shop or a small room at the local library. It worked wonders. But I'm not going to help them understand a medical school level text if they can't show me they understand the basics. I'm all for helping my students learn more about the assessment and disease processes, I will spend an hour or two after shift on those who asked for additional help and if I didn't know the answer I sent them to any number of my co-workers who did have the answer.
chbare Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Unfortunately, as already stated, one book simply cannot be seen as the ultimate resource. Where I teach, we've actually implemented significant changes. One change is a move away from one textbook. We still have a textbook for general reference; however, certain topics have their own books now. For example, we require the Ron Walls airway book, a fluids and electrolytes book, the new AMLS textbook and I am currently pushing to implement a new pharmacology textbook. If I have my way, we will transition to Dr. Jeff Guy's book. Of course, we require the ACLS, NRP, PALS and PHTLS textbooks. In addition, one of my colleagues is looking at adding an ECG textbook as well. I am also part of a push to require a full year of A&P taught taught by the science department. We currently have a semester course that we require, but we will hopefully mirror the pre-requirements of all the other allied health programmes. My point being, you can never rely on one source for information. I also agree that an entry level provider may not benefit from medical school textbooks or books not specific to the curriculum being learned. For example, I could require Egan's Findamentals of Respiratory Care for my students during their respiratory course, but I'm not sure how helpful much of the material in that book would be for them. Likewise, I'm not sure respiratory students would find a paramedic textbook all that helpful for learning the core components of the respiratory curriculum. 1
Kiwiology Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) My point being, you can never rely on one source for information Except me, I rely on one source for everything. I know everything so I rely on myself. Proton? WTF is that, get out of my way ... now, make sure we're on a good drip, where's that 20ml syringe gone, who's got my suxamethonium? Edited November 23, 2011 by kiwimedic
croaker260 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) I like Dubins for an introduction to EKG's, though once you master this there are more in depth books. None are better than Dubins for learning the basics. Guytons pathophysiology is an excellant rescource. Hudaks critical care medicine is good too, but may be too much for just getting through your school. Guytons (or a book like it) should be bedside reading. Walls airway management text for...well ...Airway Management. None better. I think most paramedic texts are rubbish in general for paramedic level classes, though I have used them at the EMT-I/Advanced level. I have used multiple specific texts when I have taught, which was the way my own paramedic school was taught..so I guess I am biased. Edited November 25, 2011 by croaker260
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