Is This Sexual Harassment ?

[Just Plain Ruff]

NO to me that is a fireable offense. You don't touch anyone and if you do and it's unwanted then you are gone. that's been the rule at any of the employers that I've worked with.

it could be tantamount to assault if you wanted to push it.

I can tell you this, you come into the bunk room and rub your hands on my body there better be two things happening for you.

1. You must be HOT and

2. you have to be my wife (who is OH SO HOT).

[JakeEMTP]

So if I were asleep in the bunkroom AK, and you came in and ran your hands over parts of my body that are offlimits to everyone who works there, you should get a written warning and a chance to do it a second time ?????

Apples and Oranges. What you describe is assault and not only would it be immediate termination, criminal charges could be filed by you.

Surfing porn is, in my opinion, acceptable behavior provided you/I keep it to ourselves. The minute these two clowns left a company computer open to a porn site gets the red flag, but I don't think they should have been fired. Unless of course, there was prior hx. However, if a complaint hadn't been filed, then is there a hx or just hearsay?

Edited November 22, 2011 by JakeEMTP

[akflightmedic]

So if I were asleep in the bunkroom AK, and you came in and ran your hands over parts of my body that are offlimits to everyone who works there, you should get a written warning and a chance to do it a second time ?????I agree with progressive discipline for the minor stuff, but there are some things that should get you fired the first time, like:Reporting to work drunk, stealing patient medications, violence, gross negilgence, or committing any crime while on duty. May I ask if you work in a union state versus a right-to-work state ?

Nice play on words. I made no indication that was an all inclusive list, I did leave the etc part at the tail end and I have also stipulated many times that your service needs to get with their management and legal team and address the issues in writing so there are guidelines. Touching someone without consent is an illegal act, therefore a stipulation could be made that illegal (breaking the law) is a terminable offense.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Nice play on words. I made no indication that was an all inclusive list, I did leave the etc part at the tail end and I have also stipulated many times that your service needs to get with their management and legal team and address the issues in writing so there are guidelines. Touching someone without consent is an illegal act, therefore a stipulation could be made that illegal (breaking the law) is a terminable offense.

Plus touching me in places that only my wife gets to touch while I'm sleeping is liable to get your hand broken and then the cops called on you.

Don't we teach kids that no one has permission to touch them in their private areas? That still holds true with anyone from infancy to 110 years old.

[Asysin2leads]

IHLPP's, I have to ask, do you find it acceptable to view pornography in the workplace? I notice you are doing the same over generalization trend you did in the thread about keeping patient's properly restrained. Do you really not see the difference between viewing hard or soft core pornography or an explicit sex scene in a mainstream movie on your own time and doing so while in the workplace? I wouldn't be disturbed by the fact they were looking at porn. I would be disturbed that they were doing it in an area that no one would consider to be an appropriate area. That tells me that the viewer's standards of acceptable behavior are severely lacking. I would say the same thing if I caught my partner taking a whizz on the floor. I understand that everyone goes pee. I do not think the fact he was peeing makes him an unacceptable provider. However his choice of when and where to do it is the problem. Its the same thing with the porn.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Asysin2leads

[Richard B the EMT]

1) "I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it" was the statement used in the pornography trial of Lenny Bruce.

2) If the company has written policy of not using company computers for non company usage, let alone viewing porn, the team should have been written up, if second time, review foir termination.

[hatelilpeepees]

Asysin, I guess it depends on your definition of porn, we are all aware that on HBO, Cinemax, or Showtime after about 10pm, there is soft porn shows that are viewed in many EMS and fire stations, and it is considered normal. So are you saying these stations should be banned in every station ? And on my cable package there are two stations that are pretty explicit, one shows Girls Gone Wild episodes two nights per week, and one is like a home shopping network show for exotic toys, where the women go into great detail about the toys and show them on tv, so should we ban all of cable to make sure no R rated shows are shown ?

[Just Plain Ruff]

I always think that some people who complain are doing so just to complain but if there are people who find that content offensive then you should not show it.

My definition of offensive is likely different than another's. If someone complains and says it's offensive to them then you need to respect that person's opinion and put something else on. I would love to see everyone getting along and coming to an agreement on what is shown on the television. For the period of time that it's on and a majority want to watch that particular show can watch it while the person who does not wish to watch it goes and does something else. But they should not be forced to bend to the majority if the there is only one television in the station.

I mean if you can't live without porn or that type of material for a shift then maybe you have a bigger problem than at first thought.

If you need to watch porn at work then you are someone I definately do not want to work with.

[HERBIE1]

Asysin, I guess it depends on your definition of porn, we are all aware that on HBO, Cinemax, or Showtime after about 10pm, there is soft porn shows that are viewed in many EMS and fire stations, and it is considered normal. So are you saying these stations should be banned in every station ? And on my cable package there are two stations that are pretty explicit, one shows Girls Gone Wild episodes two nights per week, and one is like a home shopping network show for exotic toys, where the women go into great detail about the toys and show them on tv, so should we ban all of cable to make sure no R rated shows are shown ?

If there are women in the firehouse or station and someone puts on porn- softcore, hardcore, sex toys, or whatever- they are asking for trouble. THAT certainly can and will be construed as harassment and creating a hostile work environment. Besides-I'm certainly no prude, but why would you watch something that might get you all worked up and not be able to do anything about it- not to mention the fact you are surrounded by a bunch of guys? That's just creepy if you ask me. And yes, I know you are female- just making a point.

[Asysin2leads]

If there are women in the firehouse or station and someone puts on porn- softcore, hardcore, sex toys, or whatever- they are asking for trouble. THAT certainly can and will be construed as harassment and creating a hostile work environment. Besides-I'm certainly no prude, but why would you watch something that might get you all worked up and not be able to do anything about it- not to mention the fact you are surrounded by a bunch of guys? That's just creepy if you ask me. And yes, I know you are female- just making a point.

Forget women or religious types. I, am a non-particularly religious, heterosexual male (not that it matters), and I would feel very uncomfortable in an environment where co-workers were regularly watching women describe sex toys and their uses. Its not so much about the fact that your TV gets HBO or Cinemax, (although if I was your CEO or manager I would be mandating that basic cable was plenty and you guys should be happy with that), or if they are capable of receiving it. Again, its a matter of if someone is sitting down and watching these things on company time. I may not have been to every EMS or fire station around the world, but I just can't get my head around the idea of people putting on Sluttly MILF Stories 14 on in the lounge and it being all a-ok. Even after 10 p.m. Seriously, I do not know what passes for normal down yonder, but I would feel very uncomfortable sitting around with a bunch of guys dressed up in firemen's outfits and watching porn. I used to work in the Village. I've heard about how those things start out.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Asysin2leads