Medics refuse to take service dog

[DwayneEMTP]

(Edit. Post was directed to Kiwi, but you all posted while I was thinking and typing.)

(Mike, again, in this environment, can you explain to me how this dog is more valuable to this man than a pet would be to the elderly?)

Again, if you'd read the thread you'd see that I am opposed to leaving the dog if there is any option.

What I am opposed to is the blind, PC outrage, as if they left his dog and then raped and beat him all the way to the hospital. He was inconvenienced, not abused, thus I don't understand the outrage.

Why is it more important that this man has his dog in this environment than any other scared, injured patient that loves their dog?

You're kinda arguing like HLPP, repeating your point but ignoring the questions...

Unless the answer was hidden in here, "Mate are you serious bloody hell ow you can't not take some blind bloke's guide dog pretty stink bro not even beached and no ghost chups required." as no normal person has any idea what that means...

[Chief1C]

This is PA's protocol, as I could not find the term service dog or service animal in MD's protocols.

Purpose:

The purpose of this policy is to provide guidance to EMS providers who encounter individuals who are assisted by service animals, including guide dogs for the visually impaired and other types of service animals. However, because of the nature of the services we provide it can sometimes be difficult to accommodate a patient and a service animal in an ambulance.

EMS providers should be guided by this policy in determining whether service animals should be transported with the individual in the ambulance or wheelchair van, or whether alternate methods of transporting the service animal should be utilized.

Criteria:

A. Any call involving a patient with service animals.

Exclusion Criteria:

A. None.

Procedure

A. All Patients with Service Animals:

1. Service animals, for example, guide dogs utilized by visually impaired persons, shall be permitted to accompany the patient in the ambulance or wheelchair van unless the presence of the service animal will disrupt emergency or urgent patient care or there is some basis for the crew members to believe that the safety of the crew, the patient or others would be compromised by the presence of the service animal in the ambulance or wheelchair van

2. EMS providers should assess the level of care required to provide competent medical attention to the patient.

3. When the presence of a service animal in the ambulance might interfere with patient care, jeopardize the safety of the crew, the patient or others, or cause damage to the ambulance or equipment, providers should make other arrangements for simultaneous transport of the service animal to the receiving facility. Unless emergency conditions dictate otherwise, absolutely every effort must be made to reunite the patient with the service animal at the time of the patient’s arrival at the hospital or other destination.

4. Acceptable alternative methods of transporting a service animal to the receiving facility include, but are not necessarily limited to, family members, friends or neighbors of the patient, or a law enforcement official. Attempt to obtain and document the consent of the patient for transport of the service animal by such person. If no such individuals are available, contact the agency base or PSAP and request that additional manpower respond to transport the service animal.

5. Providers should document on the patient care report instances where the patient utilizes a service animal, and should document on the patient care report whether or not the service animal was transported with the patient. If the service animal is not transported with the patient, a separate incident report should be maintained by the EMS agency describing the reasons that the service animal was not transported with the patient.

Notes:

1. EMS agencies in PA provide quality services to all individuals regardless of race, color, national origin, sex, disability, or creed, and comply with all applicable state and Federal laws regarding discrimination and access to public accommodations.

Edited November 25, 2011 by 2c4

[zmedic]

The above protocol I think is great. Take the animal if you can, but if you have a specific reason to think it is going to harm patient care or be a danger you can have someone else bring it to the hospital. And a nice compromise between the "you must bring the dog no matter what" people and the "all dogs are dangerous and can't come in my rig."

It's also a nice reminder that this is exactly the sort of issue that protocols are great for, things that are likely to happen but aren't every day events and are hard to sort out on the fly.

[ambodriver]

Sorry? Are you fucked in the head or are you actually serious? I can't tell through the extreme fail it's just too strong mate!

Of course the service dogs are properly trained.

Lets not worry about it? Would you not worry about taking some other essential piece of equipment for the patient? Would you not take Grandpa's wheelchair?

Hey calm down there. I don't give two shits what ya think when you talk to me like that.

My reasoning is sound and nothing you are saying will really change my mind. I'm not taking a dog in the back of my ambulance. I don't know how that dog will respond to me. It doesn't speak english....

I'd call PD/Animal control with my radio. I hardly see how this is such a big deal. The dog won't be doing him any good in the back of an ambulance in an emergency.

[hatelilpeepees]

Get used to it ambo, thats what they do in this room. You are right, and again I ask, what do you think the hospital is going to do with this dog ? I am sure the hospital has alpo and dog water bowls to keep the dog happy for the week the patient is in the hospital. Also, if you guys are not aware there are lots of people who claim that their pet is a service dog just so they can fly with them in the passenger area instead of cargo, they claim the pets sense their seizures. A big load of BS. The patient does not need this dog in the ambulance or hospital.

[DFIB]

Get used to it ambo, thats what they do in this room. You are right, and again I ask, what do you think the hospital is going to do with this dog ? I am sure the hospital has alpo and dog water bowls to keep the dog happy for the week the patient is in the hospital. Also, if you guys are not aware there are lots of people who claim that their pet is a service dog just so they can fly with them in the passenger area instead of cargo, they claim the pets sense their seizures. A big load of BS. The patient does not need this dog in the ambulance or hospital.

I know a person that has registered their dog as a service animal so she does not have to leave poochie in the car during lunch with her friends. It is not dificult to do.

[croaker260]

SLOW DOWN EVERYONE, let me share a HIPAA safe incident from a galaxy far far away.... Hopefully this will negate some of the arm chair quarterbacking.....

In this galaxy, a couple of medics were working a code. The patients partner/Spouse/SIgnificant Other/etc (NOT THE PATIENT) had a service dog.

In the course of the call, the patient had ROSC but was very unstable, intubated, hypotensive, etc and was fully expected to code again. The other party was invited to ride n the MICU (in front of course). The service dog was declined. There was simply no way to safely restrain the dog int he front for the safety of the driver/operation of the ambulance, and the BACK of the ambulance was already chaotic enough without adding an animal. Additionaly, in this case the crew had 3 people in the back and there was physically no practical room in this case.

Ironicaly, I believe there wa alternative transportation on scene but the party declined it.

A civil rights suite was filed, and a number of policy changes came out of it. ADA sent investigators out and they physically crawled in the back of the ambulance, interviewed the medics, etc. It is my understanding that the inviestigators from the ADA found no specific fault of the medics due to the circumstances, but did recomend that we could offer alternative transportation (i.e. with a supervisor, LEO, etc) should it arise again. I am not sure if the suite was found without merit, or is still ongoing. I have not heard anything further about it so I am Fairly sure it is dead in the water.

[DFIB]

SLOW DOWN EVERYONE, let me share a HIPAA safe incident from a galaxy far far away.... Hopefully this will negate some of the arm chair quarterbacking.....

In this galaxy, a couple of medics were working a code. The patients partner/Spouse/SIgnificant Other/etc (NOT THE PATIENT) had a service dog.

In the course of the call, the patient had ROSC but was very unstable, intubated, hypotensive, etc and was fully expected to code again. The other party was invited to ride n the MICU (in front of course). The service dog was declined. There was simply no way to safely restrain the dog int he front for the safety of the driver/operation of the ambulance, and the BACK of the ambulance was already chaotic enough without adding an animal. Additionaly, in this case the crew had 3 people in the back and there was physically no practical room in this case.

Ironicaly, I believe there wa alternative transportation on scene but the party declined it.

A civil rights suite was filed, and a number of policy changes came out of it. ADA sent investigators out and they physically crawled in the back of the ambulance, interviewed the medics, etc. It is my understanding that the inviestigators from the ADA found no specific fault of the medics due to the circumstances, but did recomend that we could offer alternative transportation (i.e. with a supervisor, LEO, etc) should it arise again. I am not sure if the suite was found without merit, or is still ongoing. I have not heard anything further about it so I am Fairly sure it is dead in the water.

This sounds like someone trying to get something for nothing. Feed em rice.

[croaker260]

This sounds like someone trying to get something for nothing. Feed em rice.

Well I didnt offer it as a comentary about the parties involved, though that had crossed my mind. I offered to provoke thought on what would be a reasonable and realist circumstances where you may encounter this, and what a reasonable solution would be, without us cussing eachother out in this thread.

BTW, I like PA's protocol.

[DFIB]

Well I didnt offer it as a comentary about the parties involved, though that had crossed my mind. I offered to provoke thought on what would be a reasonable and realist circumstances where you may encounter this, and what a reasonable solution would be, without us cussing eachother out in this thread.

BTW, I like PA's protocol.

Cursing? Kind of touchy tonight?

Reasonable solution. Leave the dog at home or let someone else bring it.

The ADA investigation makes me want to curse though. They follow due process in the investigation of the complaint. Find no fault but still recommend that the medical service should be more accommodating. What a bunch of BS. It is giving the person who filed the complaint the win although no fault was found.

I can hear it now. “We didn’t find anything wrong but still chewed their butt and made them change their policy” What a bunch of crap. Once again the subjugation of substance to feelings.

This has been the argument of the entire thread. People who expect more that they deserve.

Edited November 25, 2011 by DFIB