WHO Single-session Psychological Debriefing: Not Recommended

[romneyfor2012]

I believe it is like everything else in medicine, we know enough to be dangerous, and can help each other as long as we do not go too far past our limits. You start IVs every day, and cannulating an artery is not impossible for us, but should not be done. We counsel patients and our coworkers everyday (mentally/emotionally), and as long as we keep it at our level that is fine, but we start pretending to be psychiatrists we have gone too far. I always provide a shoulder to cry on and an ear that listens, but I also know when it is time for me to back out and let the professionals do what they do best.

How many times have you had a partner who had all kinds of jerry springer moments in his home life, so you counseled him on what you knew from your life experience. Nothing wrong with that, but if he is depressed or suicidal, you send them to the professional.

[Vorenus]

I respectfully disagree Dwayne, how can the local catholic priest (or any other religous leader)know what it is like in our world. They may visit the sick and injured in the hospital, after the patient is all cleaned up and put back together, but how many have put the body of a burned child in a body bag.

I would much rather have one of my coworkers talk to me first, rather than hear "just trust in jesus (or other diety) and all will be OK". If that did not resolve the problem I would see a professional counselor.Do you really believe that a pastor would be better at helping me than Ruff, you, or AK ???????

It`s not really about the whole - "I know what you`re going through, I`ve been there, too, therefore I have THE right answer".

Point is, everyone is reacting differently about the same situations. I may be totally cool in a situation, where you`re moved to the core and vice versa.

The difference Dwayne is meaning (I guess) is the one between someone scholared in the main principles of counselling and deeper psychiatry, and someone who`s not (regardless wether that person`s a preacher or not).

[DFIB]

Then what would you say about people who go to their religous leader for advice, as I imagine far more people see their pastor before they see a psychiatrists. These religous leaders are not mental health "PROFESSIONALS", but they counsel far more than the mental health community.

You will find that although there are still religious leaders that have not completed their degree the vast majority have. Depending on the church or denomination you will find that most have at least a bachelors degree. Religious studies for pastors, priest, rabis etc include classes on psychology and counseling. And in some denominations a masters or doctorate are almost required to be a senior staff person.

Many churches have counselors on staff or on referral that they send people to for counseling when needed. This practice is encouraged when the patients “problems” obviously exceed the pastor’s abilities.

Your assumption that religious leaders are unprofessional and uneducated once again is made out of your ignorance of the subject at hand. I am sure that there are exceptions but your generalization is incorrect.

I respectfully disagree Dwayne, how can the local catholic priest (or any other religous leader)know what it is like in our world. They may visit the sick and injured in the hospital, after the patient is all cleaned up and put back together, but how many have put the body of a burned child in a body bag.

First it is not necessary for pastor, priest, or religious leader to understand your job or your situation. They only have to empathize with your heart. They see lives and hearts that are severely broken every day and endeavor to care and help them. They help people that they see and help experience things much worse than what the average EMS worker will see in a critical incident.

[hatelilpeepees]

I am stating that they are qualified, as they do it every day, but that would not be my choice of who to vent to since they would not understand my job.  The point is that people are saying that CISD is a bad thing because some pointey headed psychiatrists felt encroached upon and began to dis the practice.  Kind of like physicians not wanting medics to do sutures.I am well aware that most religous leaders are degreed professionals, but they are not at the level of someone who has a Masters in psychotherapy. Just saying, if the religous folks can do it without causing harm (by just giving empathy, as a medic would), then I see no reason to stop a practice that has worked for years.

Edited November 28, 2011 by hatelilpeepees

[DFIB]

I would much rather have one of my coworkers talk to me first,

If your co-workers are part of your emotional support system seeing them is good.

I would much rather have one of my coworkers talk to me first, rather than hear "just trust in jesus (or other diety) and all will be OK".

This is an odd comparison and really doesn't make sense, You make the huge, incorrect asumption that every talk with the religious leader will end in a "come to jesus" moment no more than talking to a FF will end up in a bar.

You still have not read the presentation. The idea is that the normal healing process is more efective than CISM through normal support groups regardless of who they may be.

I am stating that they are qualified, as they do it every day, but that would not be my choice of who to vent to since they would not understand my job. The point is that people are saying that CISD is a bad thing because some pointey headed psychiatrists felt encroached upon and began to dis the practice. Kind of like physicians not wanting medics to do sutures.I am well aware that most religous leaders are degreed professionals, but they are not at the level of someone who has a Masters in psychotherapy. Just saying, if the religous folks can do it without causing harm (by just giving empathy, as a medic would), then I see no reason to stop a practice that has worked for years.

First it is not necessary for pastor, priest, or religious leader to understand your job or your situation. They only have to empathize with your heart. They see lives and hearts that are severely broken every day and endeavor to care and help them. They help people that they see and help experience things much worse than what the average EMS worker will see in a critical incident

Edited November 28, 2011 by DFIB

[DwayneEMTP]

...I would much rather have one of my coworkers talk to me first...

I think that most of us are blessed with that option. And it's a great first option. But we're not talking about first options here, we're talking about CISD, a whole different scenario.

...rather than hear "just trust in jesus (or other diety) and all will be OK".

This statement makes it clear that either you have no actual involvement with professional religious counseling, or that the experiences you have had have been from backwoods, knuckle draggers..You are mistaken if you try and paint the entire religious world with that brush.

...If that did not resolve the problem I would see a professional counselor. Do you really believe that a pastor would be better at helping me than Ruff, you, or AK ???????

Truthfully I do. I have resolved many problems with the help of my friends here, often specifically with ak, but he would be the first to say, "Bro, you are dealing with this in an unhealthy way. I don't think chatting about it is going to get it done. It's time we stepped this over to the pro's." And I would believe him, and do so.

Buddies are great. I have discussed many heart wrenching issues with my friends here, and have made significant changes in perspective and attitude based on their council, but not a single one of the people that I respect here would ever consider my advice to be on a professional level, regardless of what I may have seen or done. Nor would a single person here ever again trust me if I told them, "I know you feel like you need more help, but don't worry, you and I can work this out..." As it would make it obvious that I was so ignorant as to be unable to see my own bullshit.

CISD counselors are not professionals. They have been given enough information to harm people, and they sometimes do. Do people often feel better after having gone to them? Sure...that's because they weren't really that fucked up to begin with.

You seem to be confusing visiting with a buddy to seeking educated, professional help. Both are great. The problem arises when someone gives your buddy a cert that can convince you and others that he IS the professional. Things can go sideways, people become or remain in pain, and there are no winners but the CISD guy that gets to play doctor because he spent a few hours in class.

HLPP, C'mon, and I truly mean this respectfully, you are too smart to make the argument that "It's always been done this way, and it makes me feel important, so it must be good."

Do me this favor, just this once. Look at the presentation, look at the studies, at least the overviews, and see if you have the same opinion once you've become educated on the subject as you do now.

I'm truly curious of your opinion after you've done so...

Dwayne

[Just Plain Ruff]

I respectfully disagree Dwayne, how can the local catholic priest (or any other religous leader)know what it is like in our world. They may visit the sick and injured in the hospital, after the patient is all cleaned up and put back together, but how many have put the body of a burned child in a body bag.

I would much rather have one of my coworkers talk to me first, rather than hear "just trust in jesus (or other diety) and all will be OK". If that did not resolve the problem I would see a professional counselor.Do you really believe that a pastor would be better at helping me than Ruff, you, or AK ???????

WOW I made the list.

I think that my pastor would be better at it than AK or Dwayne or anyone else here because my pastor knows me personally and I feel very comfortable talking to him.

I also think that Dwayne and AK would be a perfectly acceptable substitute in my pastors absence though.

I also know several pastors who are actively involed with the FD's and PD's in the area and I can go to them if I need.

Plus my best friend is a councilor so I have basically unlimited access to him.

I have been involved in several CISD debriefs, all debriefs involved the deaths of children, 2 of which were homicides. I didn't feel like the CISD helped but going to my pastor on one of them and my friend for the other was to me more beneficial than the CISD program. By the way, one CISD was not voluntary based on the brutality of the mode of death of the child.