Grandpa has a gun!

[DFIB]

We are toned out for a unresponsive male in a remote parking lot. Upon arrival the patient is unconscious, and having a heart attack. His 16 year old grandson, who is performing bystander CPR, declares that he has a valid driver’s license and will follow the ambulance to the hospital. He also declares that his grandpa has a concealed carry handgun license and has a Kimber 9 mm in a hip holster.

LE is 15min away.

What do you do with the gun?

Edited November 26, 2011 by DFIB

[hatelilpeepees]

I think this has already been discussed in a thread, and the consensus was that it would be turned over to law enforcement as firearms are not allowed in the ambulance or hospital. When we transport police, they hand over their gun to another cop. Again, the patient's wants do not supercede the safety of others. I have a permit, and would love to carry a gun on my ambulance but it is not allowed.

[DFIB]

I think this has already been discussed in a thread, and the consensus was that it would be turned over to law enforcement as firearms are not allowed in the ambulance or hospital. When we transport police, they hand over their gun to another cop. Again, the patient's wants do not supercede the safety of others. I have a permit, and would love to carry a gun on my ambulance but it is not allowed.

You would give it to LE on the scene? At the Hospital? Or simply to the hospital security to be stored with other weapons?

You are correct. I looked up the thread you mentioned since you felt it nessesary to mention but did not cite the reference. http://www.emtcity.c...s-guns-and-ems/

I don't think you read the OP very well.

Edited November 26, 2011 by DFIB

[akflightmedic]

I see the detail you are stressing which IHLPP did not address.

I am assuming this is a witnessed cardiac arrest with immediate CPR--therefore higher than normal chance of survival.

You are placing the LE 15 minutes away and indicating you do not wish to delay transport simply to hand off a weapon.

A normal response would be he is an arrest, work him then call him...but this case is one of those rarer ones which is witnessed with immediate CPR...right?

[DFIB]

I see the detail you are stressing which IHLPP did not address.

I am assuming this is a witnessed cardiac arrest with immediate CPR--therefore higher than normal chance of survival.

You are placing the LE 15 minutes away and indicating you do not wish to delay transport simply to hand off a weapon.

A normal response would be he is an arrest, work him then call him...but this case is one of those rarer ones which is witnessed with immediate CPR...right?

I got this idea from the Service dog thread.

Yes, there is a witnessed CPR. More than the patients odds of regaining automatism I was considering not wanting to wait on LE although I would love to hear your thoughts on the Medical aspect as well. This is a patient I would want to give the benefit of definitive care. My unit would be a BLS unit. The closest ALS can be on scene in 20 minutes and intercept 10 minutes away.

I would prefer not to wait for LE to simply hand off the weapon.

Edited November 26, 2011 by DFIB

[akflightmedic]

This is not a black and white case, this is one of the many grays we all will encounter at one time or another.

If put in this situation, I would NOT hand over the weapon to anyone on scene. I would elect to begin transport as this patient at that moment has a higher/the highest probability of ROSC. I would confirm/visualize the presence of the weapon and how it is positioned (if I do not want to handle it). Regardless of being familiar with a weapon or not, I would remove it without pulling the trigger as even a 3 year old knows what makes a gun go bang.

The weapon could be placed/secured in an exterior compartment but I myself would prefer placing it where I have eyes on it.

The presence of this weapon would not delay delivery of care or transport.

Upon arrival at the ER, I would notify LE or Hospital security to come secure the weapon. This would not be a new request to either choice and they are quite familiar how to proceed from there. I could fully justify my exception for allowing the weapon in the ambulance to anyone who challenges the decision.

[DFIB]

This is not a black and white case, this is one of the many grays we all will encounter at one time or another.

If put in this situation, I would NOT hand over the weapon to anyone on scene. I would elect to begin transport as this patient at that moment has a higher/the highest probability of ROSC. I would confirm/visualize the presence of the weapon and how it is positioned (if I do not want to handle it). Regardless of being familiar with a weapon or not, I would remove it without pulling the trigger as even a 3 year old knows what makes a gun go bang.

The weapon could be placed/secured in an exterior compartment but I myself would prefer placing it where I have eyes on it.

The presence of this weapon would not delay delivery of care or transport.

Upon arrival at the ER, I would notify LE or Hospital security to come secure the weapon. This would not be a new request to either choice and they are quite familiar how to proceed from there. I could fully justify my exception for allowing the weapon in the ambulance to anyone who challenges the decision.

Muchas Gracias. You sound like you have done that before :0

I was thinking along the same lines except I would possibly confirm an empty chamber as well.

[ERDoc]

An external compartment would be a great idea that I hadn't though of. I was thinking of giving the gun to the driver and not allowing the grandson to ride along.

[tniuqs]

Clear the weapon ... mag in my pocket .. just a hunk of metal now, driver contact dispatch asap to have LEO collect.

cheers

Edited November 26, 2011 by tniuqs

[Eydawn]

Interesting! I am very familiar with handguns. However, I would not necessarily want to try to clear a gun that I don't know, that I didn't load. If it's in a hip holster, remove the whole holster and place the entire thing in a secured compartment where it won't slide around.

Side note- would you want to defib this guy with a gun on his side? That's a huge hunk of metal... that could be problematic, right?

Wendy

CO EMT-B