ERDoc Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Until very recently (last 100-125 years or so), a marriage was a financial transaction: One man purchasing the property of another man. Ah, the good old days. PS-That is just a joke ladies. I love my wife and admit that she wears the pants (I get to wear the scrubs).
Kaisu Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I don't understand why just because a person is gay they get to be exempt from marriage. Hetero people have to suffer - Gay people should too. 4
MedicNorth Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Not much of an argument on this thread.... surely there must be someone out there who is against gay marriage. Jump in and make your points if you are there. Free expression, right? I am having trouble believing that EMS practitioners are all social liberals 1
ERDoc Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Not much of an argument on this thread.... surely there must be someone out there who is against gay marriage. Jump in and make your points if you are there. Free expression, right? I am having trouble believing that EMS practitioners are all social liberals We kicked him out. He was getting too crotchity for us. 2
HERBIE1 Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Well, I hate to be the lone voice of dissension (actually, I don't really care LOL) but I will take an opposing view on this issue. Although I am not as adamant about it as I used to be, I do not agree with the concept of gay marriage- and it has nothing to do with religion. Marriage to me- and to everyone I knew growing up- had one definition- a man and a woman. Calling it a civil union does not change the basic concept either. (Does calling an illegal immigrant "undocumented" really change anything, or does it seem less objectionable somehow?) I tend to be conservative in my views- more of by convention on this issue than for any other reason. It seems to me that in this country, many traditions, societal norms, etiquette, and customs have fallen by the wayside in recent decades. Not a dramatic shift, but certainly a slow, steady change in what we consider to be acceptable behavior. We've gone from a more conservative norm all the way to a "if it feels good, do it, anything you say or do is OK, and nobody has the right to disagree with you" attitude. Examples include- what we accept as appropriate language in public today, on the airwaves, in a business or social setting, or interpersonal communications. Relaxing of dress standards in the work place, relaxing of proper manners in formal and/or casual settings, etc. Sexting, sending dirty pictures via your phone or lap top, forwarding dirty jokes to a dozen people at a time- this is pretty damned bold and would be considered perverse compared to just a few years ago. Over the years, it has become increasingly "wrong" to point out these changes-including gay marriage, and folks who point out these things are then labeled as intolerant, old school, out of touch, or in the extreme- bigoted, homophobic,racist, xenophobic, etc. For a long time, I think many people were afraid to speak out about these changes for fear of being branded as intolerant. I realize this is an age old issue with each generation bemoaning the "deterioration" of standards and acceptable behavior of the ones to follow. For better or for worse, we have become a much more casual society, and while I think some of these changes are harmless, as a whole, I think change for change's sake is not a good idea either. I am certainly not Puritanical, a prude, nor am I a bible thumping evangelical, but I think certain conventions simply should not be ignored. Not every single societal norm or custom needs to be challenged and/or changed simply because someone, somewhere, in some fringe group disagrees with it. Over the years, marriage has gone from being a life long commitment- due to religious doctrine as well as societal convention- to being little more than an elevated form of a long term relationship that can be ended almost on a whim. We have gone from lifelong commitments, to marriages measured in days, and sometimes even hours, Obviously there are cases where a marriage probably SHOULD end- abuse being one of the biggies, but I simply think we are too quick to discard/change/eliminate something we deem as inconvenient, difficult, or bothersome. I simply think there does not need to be a data set to prove or disprove some societal norms. Does it mean the end of the world that many companies have casual Fridays, that 2 men can "marry", or that men no longer are expected to open doors for ladies or that prime time TV now shows more T&A than a porn magazine from the 50's? Not necessarily, but I do suggest that adding all these changes up, I think there is a cause and effect between acceptable behavior/societal standards, and many of the ills we face in our society today. Does society change and evolve over time? Of course, but I suggest some of those changes are NOT a positive sign. I'll don my Nomex suit now...
Just Plain Ruff Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Hey Herbie, I for one never said I condoned the marriage of gays, just that I really don't see it affecting me. My religious book, the bible, says marriage is between a man and a woman. I've been told over and over that if it's in the bible then it's the law but I don't believe that part. Just because religions say it's not right and against the law of nature or whatever crap that they say, I say that if it doesn't affect me then I'm not going to go all postal out there and take a NO NO NO attitude. I have at least 5 gay friends who have steady partners. Each couple lives together, they go out to dinner as a couple and they work and live as a couple. They consider themselves married but the law in missouri at this time does not consider them married. As a matter of fact two of those couples actually got married in a church (not binding of course in missouri) by a gay pastor. To them in the eyes of God they are married but not in the eyes of the state. I say more power to them. Sort of the argument to make prostitution legal. I've never been to a prostitute, I've never paid for sex (except on really expensive dates) so making prostitution legal or illegal affects me HOW? I don't see it affecting my life in any way shape or sort. I do not agree with gays getting married but I'm not going to make a big deal out of it and say they cannot because it does not affect my life one iota. OK so I'm going to play Crotchity here for a moment or flaming for a moment You people who are against gay marriage are racists and gay baiters. You should be ashamed of yourselves and need to just DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1
ERDoc Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Herbie, no flaming from me, just a good discussion. I agree with you about stuff on television. It is difficult to find something that you can really call a family show anymore. There are quite a few shows on at 8pm that I find uncomfortable watching with my 6 and 9 year olds. As for the gay marriage issue, where do you see it deteriorating to? Could it be any worse than Kim Kardashian, Britney Spears, et al? I think one of the biggest hurdles for the gay community is overcoming the stigma created by the 1970s San Francisco community. There are plenty of gay people who are not out there flaunting their "gayness." Most that I know what to live a quiet, normal life. They identify themselves as people who are gay, not gays who are people. 1
tniuqs Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Well I am all for it .. why because it does not effect me in the slightest .. that said are they best ready themselves for the Divorce Laws as well. Fair is fair and Divorce Lawyers need love too . Edited November 30, 2011 by tniuqs
Just Plain Ruff Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 The issue I see with Gay marriage is that for every one of my gay friends, they have had multiple multiple gay partners. 2 of my couple friends have already broken up with their soulmates and found other ones. All of them are still my friends. For the couples who I know who did get married legally, none of them are still together. I expect the divorce rate to be higher in gay couples but I'm not sure since gay marriage is such a new thing.
Vorenus Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 The issue I see with Gay marriage is that for every one of my gay friends, they have had multiple multiple gay partners. 2 of my couple friends have already broken up with their soulmates and found other ones. All of them are still my friends. For the couples who I know who did get married legally, none of them are still together. I expect the divorce rate to be higher in gay couples but I'm not sure since gay marriage is such a new thing. I dunno, I could see the point of your first view, but here I`m a bit lost. Most (heterosexuell) person I know have had multiple sex partners, and I know ALOT of divorced guys and gals. Guess that`s only a guess on your side, or do you have any numbers that`d prove that gay marriages have a higher number of divorces.
Recommended Posts