Hot Button topic AGAIN .

[Just Plain Ruff]

Pentacostal women are forced to wear a skirt, Baptist are not supposed to dance or drink alcohol, Jews have to eat kosher, Catholics eat fish on friday, and many religions order you to abstain from food during Lent. All religions have their rules. The point is, this is her CHOICE !!!! It is her religion and it does not infringe your rights in any way.

You may not understand or like her religion, but I imagine she feels the same way about yours.

And for the record, American women are the most abused group of women on the planet. Think about it.P.S. Homosexualtiy is part of teenage passage for boys in India, but I imagine the Muslim religion does not approve, just like the Protestant religion, that seems to have so many closet homosexual preachers that get outed.

I'm curious, can you expand on the statement that American women are the most abused on the planet.

[tniuqs]

Pentacostal women are forced to wear a skirt, Baptist are not supposed to dance or drink alcohol, Jews have to eat kosher, Catholics eat fish on friday, and many religions order you to abstain from food during Lent. All religions have their rules. The point is, this is her CHOICE !!!! It is her religion and it does not infringe your rights in any way.

Ahem really ? .. no choice at all to be born into any religion, period and put up or shut up or be stoned to death are the options women face, so should we talk about the birds and the bees again.

You may not understand or like her religion, but I imagine she feels the same way about yours.

I am called a non believer or infidel as a non Muslim, I have read a few of the top sellers I like the teachings of Budda the best read.

And for the record, American women are the most abused group of women on the planet.

Like I said you have never stepped foot of N.A. soil, you have GOT to be kidding me .

Think about it.P.S. Homosexualtiy is part of teenage passage for boys in India, but I imagine the Muslim religion does not approve, just like the Protestant religion, that seems to have so many closet homosexual preachers that get outed.

insert <HONK> Sorry way off topic .. bad bad flaming and minus 10 for once again for bring your agenda to yet another thread.

Edited December 13, 2011 by tniuqs

[flamingemt2011]

I did not bring it, Dwayne did, so yell at him, I am just responding to his question. Captain, I do not want to hijack this thread, but I will answer your question. Let's look at female history in the US: During our founding days, indian (reservation not convenience store indians) and black women were often enslaved and raped, even Thomas Jefferson owned a few. Women were second class to men and did not get the right to vote until the last century. Women were finally allowed the right to work in a profession other than maid, teacher, or seamstress during WW2. It was not until the late 20th century that women were allowed to fully do "MAN" jobs (when did the first women show up in Fire and EMS). Then once they were allowed to do MAN jobs, even to this day, they do not have equality in pay (generally, EMS may be different).

In this current enlightened period of history, women are still abused physically and mentally everyday, most end up divorced raising a sorry ass man's kids by herself. For those who like statistics 4.8 million women are abused every year by people they are in relationships with, over 600/day are raped. Yes, we are so much better than Afghanistan.

[HellsBells]

This is a particularly sensitive issue, and a good wedge issue for the Conservatives. Predicibily, the hyperbole has already went off the charts on this issue; considering very few actually wear the head covering here (I was unable to find any statistical sources, but if appears about 1-5% of muslim women wear a full face covering). The reasons for banning it outright at the swearing in cerimonies are equally dubious, as I assume that its fairly unlikely someone would try to sneak in under false pretenses, or refuse to utter the oath, after having gone through all the other requirements for citizenship.

However, banning full face coverings at these cerimonies is the right thing to do. Technically, they are not required in the Koran, and (to my limited understanding) for Muslims, if its not mentioned in the holy book, it is not specifically nessesary. The Koran does mention the need for women to be covered from neck to ankle, but not the face. Therefore this is not a specific religous right, but a cultural one, and not protected under our charter.

But, beyond the truly religous aspect, in my view there is a moral aspect to this issue as well. Personally, I recoil when I see a woman walking the street, clad from head to toe in what appears to be a black ghost costume. Whether that reaction is a moral failing of tolerance on my part, I can't say with certainty. However, my feeling on the veiling of women is that it is deeply disrespectful of both men and women of all creeds. The implication of this garment is that it is nessesary because if men are allowed to gaze a women's face, they will be overcome with unsatible lust, and carnal knowledge of that women will then become unevitable. This makes two statements very clear. One: Men have no ability to control or disipline themselves when it comes to matters of sexual congress. Two: All women are sinister tempresses, that must be held at bay by formless coverings, lest they spoil all men around them with their sinister facial features. Of course, a practical display of this mindset was played out in Afganistan recently, when a women was forced to marry her rapist, rather then her be sent to prison for the crime of being raped.

However, my feelings on religious accomidation differ on other issues. I see no problem with Sikhs wearing Turbans as RCMP officers, in my opinion, its a hat. Whether that hat is a turban or their regular duty cap, it doesn't effect their ability to do the job, besides, I've witnessed plenty of RCMP officers come into the hospital wearing nothing on their heads at all. Now Tniugs, I have to ask, would a constable not wearing any hat at all sully the reputation of the uniform any more than a Turban would?

As for the postings of Craig, I fear he displays a insideous and dangerous attitude that has slowly crept into our society over the the last couple decades. One that equates any type of criticism of religious or cultural minorities with rasicism and ignorance. Once which is being upheld by our infortunate human rights tribunals, that in some cases seem to supercede the criminal and civil courts of our society.

Anyway, my point on the whole topic is that it is right, but perhaps for the wrong reason.

[chbare]

Have you ever been to Afghanistan, lived among the people of that country or experienced it's culture firsthand?

[Richard B the EMT]

Women were second class to men and did not get the right to vote until the last century. Women were finally allowed the right to work in a profession other than maid, teacher, or seamstress during WW2. It was not until the late 20th century that women were allowed to fully do "MAN" jobs (when did the first women show up in Fire and EMS). Then once they were allowed to do MAN jobs, even to this day, they do not have equality in pay (generally, EMS may be different).

My grandmother on Momma B's side almost didn't get married, as that would have possibly been reason to fire her, back then. She did rise to become an assistant principal, at a time when women didn't usually rise to that level. Also, she was a Sufferagette!

[tniuqs]

Once which is being upheld by our infortunate human rights tribunals, that in some cases seem to supercede the criminal and civil courts of our society.

Interesting comment.

Now Tniugs, I have to ask, would a constable not wearing any hat at all sully the reputation of the uniform any more than a Turban would?

Not in the slightest in my opinion, in fact in a Canadian Legion or CAF mess I am not permitted to wear a cover, what a hulaballoo over that issue.

I had to wear a tie years ago working in EMS on the streets and that was retarded too.

If you wish, lets make this a safety issue can one put on a ballistic helmet over a Turban, why are "Turban wearers" (sorry best I could come up with short notice) be exempt from helmet laws riding bicycles or driving motor cycles or how about wearing a helmet skiing, should if they become a head injury be covered by Health Care Insurance ?

In many Industrial sites I am forced by policy to be clean shaven because of proper mask fitting and H2S but because of my lack of religion I have to shave but other groups have concessions in place to have a beard ? What is fair about that ?

Being treated equally is where I take issue if its really my choice in Canada to have facial hair then why can not have my rights enforced as well ? Just for fun ask the Human Rights commission about that ?

Have you ever been to Afghanistan, lived among the people of that country or experienced it's culture firsthand?

Just whom are you asking ?

I gave you a positive rep .. not that's this is a really good question but I like seeing round numbers like 200

I think the tourism industry in Afghanistan has taken a bit of a hit for a few years since the Russians visited.

cheers

[HellsBells]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/touch/story.html?id=5853644

Here is a really good opinion piece on the issue.

To answer your question tniuqs, the turban right should not supercede saftey concerns. However, normal day to day operations of a cop do not require ballistic helmets.

[chbare]

Interesting comment.

Not in the slightest in my opinion, in fact in a Canadian Legion or CAF mess I am not permitted to wear a cover, what a hulaballoo over that issue.

I had to wear a tie years ago working in EMS on the streets and that was retarded too.

If you wish, lets make this a safety issue can one put on a ballistic helmet over a Turban, why are "Turban wearers" (sorry best I could come up with short notice) be exempt from helmet laws riding bicycles or driving motor cycles or how about wearing a helmet skiing, should if they become a head injury be covered by Health Care Insurance ?

In many Industrial sites I am forced by policy to be clean shaven because of proper mask fitting and H2S but because of my lack of religion I have to shave but other groups have concessions in place to have a beard ? What is fair about that ?

Being treated equally is where I take issue if its really my choice in Canada to have facial hair then why can not have my rights enforced as well ? Just for fun ask the Human Rights commission about that ?

Just whom are you asking ?

I gave you a positive rep .. not that's this is a really good question but I like seeing round numbers like 200

I think the tourism industry in Afghanistan has taken a bit of a hit for a few years since the Russians visited.

cheers

I was curious if flaming had been to Afghanistan.

[tniuqs]

http://www.ottawacit...html?id=5853644

Here is a really good opinion piece on the issue.

To answer your question tniuqs, the turban right should not supercede saftey concerns. However, normal day to day operations of a cop do not require ballistic helmets.

Speaking more in general a drive through lower main land in BC and you will see what I mean, if we are going to make a law (btw like we need more sheesh) then we are bound by the courts to abide by it, as all good Canadian citizens er Borg.

Beautiful Girl in that link btw.