What equipment would you take in ?

[romneyfor2012]

Lets say you are one of two adults that is leading a cub scout troop on a camping trip, in a very remote wilderness area (no cell phones, no civilization for miles). It is a very mountainous and heavily wooded area. Two of the boys wander off on a hike without your permission, and one of them gets injured (fell down a ravine, maybe broken or twisted ankle). The other boy comes back to get you and can lead you to where the injured boy is. You have a good jump kit in your car and your camping gear. You send the other adult into town (40 miles) to get help using your only vehicle.

Realizing you have to carry everything in by foot, and have to bring the boy out by foot, what equipment do you take ???? He is at least 3 miles into the woods.

There is no gotcha here, I have just never done wilderness rescue, and would like to know what you guys generally do ?

[tcripp]

While I've never done wilderness rescue, they teach you to use "what you have". So, take in the bare necessities and keep your mind sharp on things you can do with what you don't have. The more you carry, the slower you will be.

Example, carrying cravats, you can find something to splint with...so no splints needed.

Just you and a kid...won't need a backboard.

Other information needed will include time of day...was this early enough in the day that you think you can make it in and out with the existing daylight? If not, that camping gear may be more helpful as night falls. And, then you will need some food for the both of you. What is the size of the missing boy? Will you and a kid be able to help him out or should you plan to stay where you are until better help can come.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Take the camping gear, the jump kit and several of the cub scouts who are responsible enough to help you.

Make sure you leave enough older cubs to stay with the younger cubs.

YOu did say you were leading a cub scout troop or pack right?

Gotta leave enough supervisors to supervise the young ones.

From there it's whatever the older cubs can carry safely.

[systemet]

The following is just personal opinion from playing around in the mountains a bit....

* In this situation the first priority is likely going to be activating rescue services. Unless there's minimal injury and he's basically able to self-extricate and support himself on one leg, you're going to need extra bodies.

* Also, you may be walking into a technical rescue. If you are not equipped for this things are about to get very difficult and potentially risky.

The worst thing to do, would be to charge in without summoning adequate help yourself, or ensuring that someone responsible is doing it right now.

As for equipment, I would think that you probably need to be able to survive overnight, and be protected from the elements and any environmental hazards. This might be greatly complicated by terrain. There's a good possibility you may not be able to reach the kid, in which case, you're only useful to the point that you can provide psychological support, and assist rescuers in locating him / her later.

Once you've taken care of your needs, and are confident you're not going to compound the problem by getting yourself lost or in a survival situation, you want to be able to keep the kid alive. So some compression dressings, tourniquets, warm clothes, maybe some blankets, something to put between the kid and the ground if you're able to access him/her would be good next priorities. I figure on top of that, I'd want an oral airway, some angiocaths for needle decompression, kit for IV access, some sort of hand-powered suction, and lots of analgesics / sedatives, perhaps some quik clot [stuff I imagine is not in your jump kit]. I'd probably drag along a cardboard splint / SAM splint and a bit of gear, in case there's a possibility of splinting and extricating, and for some relief of pain. Maybe a few cravats and a couple of hemostats to do a pelvic wrap if necessary.

Beyond that, I don't know. I mean, I could make arguments for bringing a BVM, surgical airway supplies, a few LMAs, and some paralytics, but really, at that point it's getting into wilderness medicine fantasy-land. It's not stuff anyone's going to have in their personal vehicle, and in most situations where it's going to be needed, the end result isn't going to be good.

I have no experience / training in this area, so I may be steering you wrong.

Edited December 27, 2011 by systemet

[rat115]

OK.... I'm going to start by pointing out why this should NEVER happen. I was a Cub Scout leader for almost 10 years, so I see protocal that was not followed. Cub Scouts are not allowed to camp with just 2 adults. There is the rule that it is manditory to have a minimum of 2 leader and youth protection trained adults at any and all functions (2 deep leadership). When Cubs go camping, it is manditory for there to be a parent or guardian (or person who the parent/guardian signs a waiver to be there in the place of that parent/guardian) for each Cub. This is because Cubs are in the age group where they still act before thinking, and it's important to have those extra adults around to supervise. Therefore, the scenerio that you put here should never be for Cub Scouts, and the leader will be removed by the District Executive after the incident and not be allowed to reapply as a leader.

Looking at the scenero and what we've taught the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts that I've worked with here's my comments on what to take.

The best things to take in are going to be a tarp (there should be at least one under each tent so take your pick), a sleeping bag, the jump kit, rope, twine if you have it, a big towel or sheet, and a team of the boys that are picked for endurance and physical shape. Make sure 2 of your boys are tagged to mark the trail so SAR can follow the trail into the area (and you can follow it out). The rest of your team is responsible for helping look for 2 thick branches that are as close as possible in length to the injured boy's height and some smaller reasonablly straight sticks for splints.

I agree with the earlier post that you're likely to need SAR for a technical rescue depending on how deep the ravine is so be prepared to spend time talking to the kiddo while SAR gets there. If you are able to get to the kiddo, you can use the towel for a c-collar if there isn't one in your jump kit. Splint what's needed with sticks and the towel or triangle bandage. Make a litter with the big sticks, tarp and twine or rope. Get the child into the sleeping bag and then zip it closed around him. Pull the sleeping bag onto the litter. Then, you work as a team with the other boys to get the injuried boy from the scene to the camp. Try to have a couple of extra boys to swap out those who get tired or stop and rest if you need and keep checking the boy as you go.

[Just Plain Ruff]

OK.... I'm going to start by pointing out why this should NEVER happen. I was a Cub Scout leader for almost 10 years, so I see protocal that was not followed. Cub Scouts are not allowed to camp with just 2 adults. There is the rule that it is manditory to have a minimum of 2 leader and youth protection trained adults at any and all functions (2 deep leadership). When Cubs go camping, it is manditory for there to be a parent or guardian (or person who the parent/guardian signs a waiver to be there in the place of that parent/guardian) for each Cub. This is because Cubs are in the age group where they still act before thinking, and it's important to have those extra adults around to supervise. Therefore, the scenerio that you put here should never be for Cub Scouts, and the leader will be removed by the District Executive after the incident and not be allowed to reapply as a leader.

Looking at the scenero and what we've taught the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts that I've worked with here's my comments on what to take.

The best things to take in are going to be a tarp (there should be at least one under each tent so take your pick), a sleeping bag, the jump kit, rope, twine if you have it, a big towel or sheet, and a team of the boys that are picked for endurance and physical shape. Make sure 2 of your boys are tagged to mark the trail so SAR can follow the trail into the area (and you can follow it out). The rest of your team is responsible for helping look for 2 thick branches that are as close as possible in length to the injured boy's height and some smaller reasonablly straight sticks for splints.

I agree with the earlier post that you're likely to need SAR for a technical rescue depending on how deep the ravine is so be prepared to spend time talking to the kiddo while SAR gets there. If you are able to get to the kiddo, you can use the towel for a c-collar if there isn't one in your jump kit. Splint what's needed with sticks and the towel or triangle bandage. Make a litter with the big sticks, tarp and twine or rope. Get the child into the sleeping bag and then zip it closed around him. Pull the sleeping bag onto the litter. Then, you work as a team with the other boys to get the injuried boy from the scene to the camp. Try to have a couple of extra boys to swap out those who get tired or stop and rest if you need and keep checking the boy as you go.

But what if it's not cub scouts but just a group of boys and two adults. That would be the more plausible one.

Because my son is in cub scouts and if he goes camping then I have to go with him. If I can't go them I have to get another family member to go with him because they won't let him go by himself. Boy scouts, a differenct story.

[rat115]

But what if it's not cub scouts but just a group of boys and two adults. That would be the more plausible one.

Because my son is in cub scouts and if he goes camping then I have to go with him. If I can't go them I have to get another family member to go with him because they won't let him go by himself. Boy scouts, a differenct story.

I addressed the rules for Cub Scouts. Boy Scouts and Venturing Scouts, address this by having patrol leaders who are responsible for the boys in their group and it would be an issue of having patrol leaders step up and take care of camp duties. If it were another group, I would think it were something more like a church group.

In any situation where you have to leave kids unattended or minimally attended, you have to factor in their age and maturity level. Who can be left in a situation like this and be trusted to do what's needed and not get in trouble? Who do you need to keep a close eye on because they have a strong tendency to not listen to those in their peer group who are placed in a position of leadership? Who can or can not handle what looks to be an intense 6 mile hike? (Remember, tying up these kids or duct taping them is not an option. Kidding on even thinking of the idea because it's been a crappy day here & I needed a chuckle.) This is where an adult leader of any group has to weigh the welfare of all of the kids under his/her supervision.

I agree with your comment in an earlier post about finding some of the older kids to stay with younger ones if you can. You may have to take the whole lot of them and do a solid job of marking the trail if you can't leave any of them unattended. This is all going to depend on the group of kids that you have and will change from group to group. Sorry, I don't see a definite solution as to what to do with the kids who are at camp because I feel that the final decision depends on the kids themselves. *insert Shrugging smilie here*

[Richard B the EMT]

2 tent poles and 2 jackets, or something to cut down and strip 2 saplings, for the makeshift streacher, if I remember anything from the Boy Scouts in 1966. However, activating the 9-1-1 system for getting those actually trained in Wilderness Rescue to respond is a must.

[runswithneedles]

rope, my mind, good knife, hatchet, box of matches and a canteen maybe a tarp if space permits. I can make a good splint out of near by branches. and the tarp can be used for a makeshift tent or used pakcage the patient. also provides some insulation

or the tarp can be turned into a kite to signal rescue

[Chief1C]

Forgive any uncharacteristic spelling, grammar or odd errors, not feeling well and extremely tired. Take a GPS. If its common to pluck people out of the wilderness, they may be able to do that. Pluck, means to lower a basket and lift out with a chopper. We don't have that option.

I don't camp, hike or adventure. But I'm a state SAR certified Field Team Member, that's a lot of training; wilderness search, rescue, tracking, grid searching, rope, survival.

We don't go in to improvise a rescue, we improvise when common methods will not work. No report on a patient that has fallen in the woods, has ever been correct. I've been on dozens of rescues and searches. Chances are, if the area is a true wilderness, with recreational purposes, there is a team somewhere nearby. Take stuff in to administer first aid; and keep the patient still, as comfortable as possible and warm. Even if it's summer. I'd say don't improvise stretchers, unless weather, safety, or other factors make it necessary to move. A rolled ankle is a rolled ankle, but the information given is "fell down a ravine". Treat it no different than someone that fell off their roof. Often you'd be better off falling off the roof. At least your concrete sidewalk or asphalt driveway aren't jagged and sharp.

We'd carry in the same stuff that you'd find in a jump kit. Just more of specific items, less of some, and more portable. LSB in a rescue basket. Usually a lot of SAM splints, Kerlix, elastic bandages in plain and self-adherent, self warming sheets, minimal airway supplies. We don't carry ski pole splints, those SOB's break. We do carry "Full Arm" air splints. Not to use as splints, air splints should be inflated and sent down the river, unless using them for bleeding control. Anyhoo, you can inflate them gingerly, and use them to pad limbs during carry outs. If you're lucky, the nearest SAR team will be well established with an anderson wheel or rugged terrain vehicle to make the extraction easier.

Now if someone ONLY broke or injured their ankle, ensure it has blood flow, immobilize it and help them walk out.

Edited January 15, 2012 by 2c4