Preceptors riding students

[Herbie]

All good advice. Start with talking to the person. You don't say how long this has been going on- has he always been an a'hole to you, or is this recent? Maybe he is having some personal issues that have nothing to do with you. That said, your personal life should not have such an impact on your job- we all have baggage we must deal with. Grab the bull by the horns and be proactive- this is YOUR education, and your preceptor has a lot to do with molding your career. I think too many folks have been tarnished by bad experiences during the internship phase of their careers, and too many of these folks perpetuate the problem by thinking this type of behavior is "normal", and become a'holes to their students when the time comes.

If your talk does not help, then go to the coordinator/instructor and explain the situation. My suspicion is you aren't the first person to have a problem with this person. Too many times a program is desperate for preceptors and they may not be too picky about who they use- especially when there may be no incentive to precept- but let me be clear. Whether or not you get paid, receive continuing education hours, or some other perk, being able to teach is an awesome responsibility that should not be taken lightly. To me, nothing is more important than ensuring new EMS folks learn the right way, and get the most out of their training- regardless of whether you are compensated in some way for your actions. These students may be your partner some day, or work on someone you love, so I will never understand how someone can have such a crappy attitude towards them.

Good luck and let us know how this turns out for you.

[JakeEMTP]

Well said Herbie.

I also can't for the life of me understand why some preceptors are just total dicks! For the very reasons you state, I will continue to offer my services to the college as a preceptor. If it was me, or a member of my family I would want the medic to have a clue. Some providers I have had the misfortune of working with have an attitude of "Damn, we have another student today". My answer is always, "Sorry, but weren't you a student once? Remember how you felt like crap when your preceptor was a giant douche to you?" If we as preceptors don't start treating our students as if they will be the ones to help us if the need arises, we will have only ourselves to blame.

I think the old days when hazing was acceptable, this whole "treat the rook or student like crap" attitude was born. It is unacceptable to treat anybody like crap, but especially our students for they are the future of our profession. How can we expect to progress as a profession when some are living in the past? It has to stop somewhere and it might as well be now.

[runswithneedles]

Then your next point of contact should be the practicum coordinator for your school, as others have suggested. There's a lot of people in EMS who like to push and push to see where someone's limits are, and sometimes you have to treat them like a schoolyard bully, and just stand up to them and they'll back down. But this is risky to do while you're on a practicum, as it can easily look like you created the problem.

I shoudlve mentioned that. When I stood up to my medic preceptor and walked off my clinical because he was being a condescending hosemonkey and treating me like a stretcher fetcher. He complained to the department and tried to have me not only banned from doing clinicals at the station. But the entire fire department as a whole. My ass got grilled when I came back but luckily he wasnt lead medic on the box. I was nearly removed from the paramedic program because his fire buddies that liked him (one of the instructors I have as well) came to his rescue and aided his case. However due to several more complaints from other EMT and paramedic students addressed to the same preceptor cleared my name. And if you truely wish to make a strong case. Document, document document. Times, witnesses to each occurences, specific comments.

Edited February 27, 2012 by runswithneedles

[Just Plain Ruff]

Ok, these assholes who think their crap don't stink haven't sat in the bathroom and smelled their shit.

First thing to do is to take one afternoon and write down your experiences from each of your shifts with him. Be detailed.

Then go to your this guy and tell him your concerns about what's been goin on. Give him an opportunity to clear the air. Tell him what your concerns are. If he doesn't satisfactorily explain why he's riding you so hard then tell him you will be going to your class coordinator.

If he's as big an asshole as you say he is then he's not going to give you diddly in terms of a explanation.

Explain to your coordinator that you aren't being led as you expect to be led and you want a different preceptor or whatever you have out there.

remember to document each shift, if you don't write this stuff down, it didn't happen.

The onus is on you to prove that you aren't getting taught the material that you need to be taught, it's not on them.

[HERBIE1]

Well said Herbie.

I also can't for the life of me understand why some preceptors are just total dicks! For the very reasons you state, I will continue to offer my services to the college as a preceptor. If it was me, or a member of my family I would want the medic to have a clue. Some providers I have had the misfortune of working with have an attitude of "Damn, we have another student today". My answer is always, "Sorry, but weren't you a student once? Remember how you felt like crap when your preceptor was a giant douche to you?" If we as preceptors don't start treating our students as if they will be the ones to help us if the need arises, we will have only ourselves to blame.

I think the old days when hazing was acceptable, this whole "treat the rook or student like crap" attitude was born. It is unacceptable to treat anybody like crap, but especially our students for they are the future of our profession. How can we expect to progress as a profession when some are living in the past? It has to stop somewhere and it might as well be now.

I think there is a huge difference between some good natured ribbing, and mean spirited hazing designed to denigrate and belittle. I really think a good sense of humor is vital to lasting in this business with your sanity intact. I also see nothing unprofessional about some teasing.

That said- what the OP was describing wasn't hazing or teasing- his preceptor was simply being an asshole.

[Lytefall]

I am generally extremely hard on all my students. But never to the point of being a dick like this guy. I am tough because I want them to be good, not just pass the course with the bare minimum of knowledge. My preceptor pushed me hard to constantly improve myself and be better than just what was needed for my certified level of care and I will always be grateful for that.

This isn't fair to you or your future patients. This doesn't provide an atmosphere where you can feel comfortable making mistakes which I think is the most important part of clinical precepting. You get to make mistakes when someone is there to correct you and that's how you learn. I tell all my students that the more mistakes they make during precepting the better medic they will be when they go out into the world on their own.

Find another preceptor. It sounds like either this medic never wanted a student (I am not sure what service you are precepting in but mine has a clear policy that only medics who want students for consolidation get them), is having personal issues or is just plain burnt out. Any way you look at it a preceptor should be a role model and this is clearly not the case.

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[dstevens58]

In our program, it was the responsibility of the student to find a preceptor (which he had to sign a form from my registration package).

It took me a little bit, however, haven't regretted my choice.

[Eydawn]

The worst possible learning environment IMHO with regard to clinical preceptors is someone who rides you for no reason, shuts you down, and creates a hostile working relationship. That's impossible for you to fight against, because you're already in a disadvantage in the power dynamic and they hold the power to pass you or not.

The best preceptors I have had were unafraid to admit what they didn't know, welcomed being questioned, challenged me to think, held me accountable for erroneous thinking or poor planning, and encouraged exploration.

The worst preceptors I've had hovered intensely, interrupted my thinking processes, insisted I do things a certain way "just because" without explanation, refused to allow more in-depth thinking, and were nasty for no apparent reason.

Find yourself a new one. You don't have to just sit down and take it. Unfortunately, that's the feeling you get being on that lower end of the power relationship... but it's absolutely not true and don't be afraid to fight for what you need.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[paramagican]

I don't understand why someone wants to be a preceptor if they don't like having students. Kind of unfair to the student.

[nattlebattle]

I was lucky enough to choose the location to do my internship. I chose my location hoping for a specific preceptor but unfortunately I was placed with someone on a different shift. I really liked my preceptor but as the days went on I realized that I was not really getting a chance to make the little mistakes that we all learn from (I can understand jumping in when you know its going to get bad). Finally I asked the preceptor that I originally wanted to ride with if he would be willing to take me on as a student for some of his shifts and I am so glad I did. For the first few shifts there were a few laughable jabs at me but they were in good fun and also contained some very good criticisms that really helped me learn from the mistakes I was making. I did end up switching to this preceptor full time and I am so glad I did because I learned so much because he was always involved with what I was learning on or off a call. I didn't realize how important it was to have someone there to question what and why you are doing something and have someone who really cares about the education you are getting once you are no longer sitting in a classroom for eight hours a day. Guess I was lucky because my preceptor was also my instructor in class.

I made the decision to better my internship experience and I think that there is no way that you shouldn't do the same thing. Just know that there are preceptors who will ride your rear but there are also those who just want to be buddies. Know when you aren't learning anymore and change it.