Recognizing Your Own Bias

[Eydawn]

It's come to my attention that we on the City are often very inconsistent as to what biases we will accept, and what kinds of "stereotyping" we take for granted.

For example... the shit storm of a thread prompted by a single joke about hysterical black woman syndrome. Wow! Just looked at that this morning... and I gotta say... holy Jesus (hey, zeus!) what a mess. On the one hand, you have the ethical provider, with a no-tolerance policy... (but nobody likes someone who likes to point out the rules...) On the other, you have folks saying "well, we've seen it... and no, we don't treat patients differently..."

But I challenge you.... how can a stereotype NOT influence how you view someone? The second you know they are (let's keep the original group here) a black woman, you're going to have that little joke pop up in your head... and consciously or unconsciously, the way you interact will be influenced. Doubly so if you happen to be a different race than said black woman. We could get into comparative racial psychology, if anyone wishes... that's a tangled web all unto itself, my friends.

But wait! There are those who purport that just knowing someone is in a certain group won't change how they interact with that person... and then turn around and DO THE VERY THING THEY SAY THEY WOULDN'T. Want to know what group I'm referring to?

Fire personnel.

The second some of our illustrious posters hear that someone is a member of the fire services, or a person steps up to defend their group, whom they perceive as being unjustly attacked, some of us jump both feet forward and go so far as to cast PERSONAL ASPERSIONS on that individual. Wait! I thought we said we didn't make broad assumptions, just because someone was a member of a particular culture? Hmm.... it appears that we do.

I know a lot of us have an axe to grind and feel that the fire system in the US is holding back some of the development of EMS. This is true. The system is rigged. There are injustices. But to point fingers and play the blame game with individual peons who are within that power system, who really have no influence over how it all works? That's just plain stupid.

It's like those of us who become frustrated because minorities cry "unfair!" with regard to academic opportunities and job opportunities... yea, there are some institutionalized biases that most of us don't even see, and boy, don't you feel attacked when someone points the finger and says "You have all this privilege because you're white, so YOU (as an individual) suck!" Sure. There may be some advantages conferred by being a member of a certain race or culture. But is it MY fault that the school systems in the ghetto suck?

Well, my friends... simply insert "firefighter" for "white" and "EMS" for "minority".... take a good hard look at this parallel, OK?

Recognize your biases. Own them. Illuminate where they are influencing your arguments. But don't pretend you don't have them, as that's hypocrisy at its finest.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[EMTDenny]

This should be a good one. Good job! Wendy!

[HERBIE1]

It's come to my attention that we on the City are often very inconsistent as to what biases we will accept, and what kinds of "stereotyping" we take for granted.

For example... the shit storm of a thread prompted by a single joke about hysterical black woman syndrome. Wow! Just looked at that this morning... and I gotta say... holy Jesus (hey, zeus!) what a mess. On the one hand, you have the ethical provider, with a no-tolerance policy... (but nobody likes someone who likes to point out the rules...) On the other, you have folks saying "well, we've seen it... and no, we don't treat patients differently..."

But I challenge you.... how can a stereotype NOT influence how you view someone? The second you know they are (let's keep the original group here) a black woman, you're going to have that little joke pop up in your head... and consciously or unconsciously, the way you interact will be influenced. Doubly so if you happen to be a different race than said black woman. We could get into comparative racial psychology, if anyone wishes... that's a tangled web all unto itself, my friends.

But wait! There are those who purport that just knowing someone is in a certain group won't change how they interact with that person... and then turn around and DO THE VERY THING THEY SAY THEY WOULDN'T. Want to know what group I'm referring to?

Fire personnel.

The second some of our illustrious posters hear that someone is a member of the fire services, or a person steps up to defend their group, whom they perceive as being unjustly attacked, some of us jump both feet forward and go so far as to cast PERSONAL ASPERSIONS on that individual. Wait! I thought we said we didn't make broad assumptions, just because someone was a member of a particular culture? Hmm.... it appears that we do.

I know a lot of us have an axe to grind and feel that the fire system in the US is holding back some of the development of EMS. This is true. The system is rigged. There are injustices. But to point fingers and play the blame game with individual peons who are within that power system, who really have no influence over how it all works? That's just plain stupid.

It's like those of us who become frustrated because minorities cry "unfair!" with regard to academic opportunities and job opportunities... yea, there are some institutionalized biases that most of us don't even see, and boy, don't you feel attacked when someone points the finger and says "You have all this privilege because you're white, so YOU (as an individual) suck!" Sure. There may be some advantages conferred by being a member of a certain race or culture. But is it MY fault that the school systems in the ghetto suck?

Well, my friends... simply insert "firefighter" for "white" and "EMS" for "minority".... take a good hard look at this parallel, OK?

Recognize your biases. Own them. Illuminate where they are influencing your arguments. But don't pretend you don't have them, as that's hypocrisy at its finest.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

Outstanding post.

Well Wendy, it would seem that we posted at the same time, addressing similar issues, albeit from different perspectives. I agree with you that around here, anything related to FF's is almost certain to generate at least a "few" negative comments. Where I work, for the most part, we can joke around about things like this: Well, I'm just a stupid firefighter, but..., or I'm just a "doctor", so what do I know.

Example: Not long ago, a firefighter/coworker who is assigned to a very slow apparatus- had some cardiac issues. We would joke around, he would complain about aches and pains(he has 30 years in the department) and we would tease him that the only injury he should have is carpal tunnel or blisters from using the TV remote, and he would ask for a bandaid for his injured remote control finger nearly every day. We were the pain in the ass "doctors", always whining about how busy we were. All good natured, all in good fun.

To make a long story short, one morning we convinced his stubborn ass to let us work him up and transport him, based on his very vague, nonspecific symptoms. Turns out he had nearly 100% occlusion of one of his coronaries, but no MI and no damage. After his PCI/stent, we visited him in the hospital. We obtained an extra remote control, taped a couple bandaids to it, wrote him a note, and left it in his room while he was having a test done. Later, he said of all the cards, flowers, and visits, he appreciated ours the most, but had a hard time explaining to his wife what it meant because she thought he still worked hard. LOL

When he came back to work, it was an awkard and emotional moment for us- he said his doctors told him he was just about ready to have the widow maker, and lucky to be alive. He really appreciated what we did, paid for our meals for the day, brought cookies from his wife- and threw the remote we gave him back at us and told us to stick it up our arses.

Point being- broad brushes are bad, and like you said, shooting the messenger is not the answer. We need to focus our energy and attention at the policy makers, NOT the foot soldiers. It would be like yelling at an Army infantry soldier for the policies that led us to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bottom line- we have far more in common with the fire service than we care to admit. It would serve us well to remember that fact when we are trying to elevate our profiles with the public and the policy makers.

Now if such a FF "foot soldier: shows up here and starts spouting nonsense, then all bets are off, of course...

[BillKaneEMT]

Iiiinteresting. The only times I've worked in ambulances were with, technically, FD rigs. It was the paramedic unit of a nearby city's Fire Department. Thing is, ALL rigs except for the few private companies up here are FD rigs. Hospitals don't have their own ambulances until you get to Lafayette or Indy. Here's the odd part. The Paramedics I was with, while technically firefighters, never ever ever ride anything but the ambulance. Although they were moderately civil to the firefighters and vice versa, there was a lot of tension in the air and a lot of snide remarks. It was odd. As I said, they were technically all firefighters but there was a large gap there. The FD station made it worse. There were separate areas for each group into which the other group could not go. It was like they were enemies despite wearing the same uniform and living in the same building. Each group explained their disdain for the others to me while out of earshot at different times. Neither group really made sense though.

I'll give an example of what it's like here. Picture a football team. 85% of the team wears Nike brand cleats. 15% wear Reebok brand cleats. Nikes consider the Reeboks overpaid wimps. Reeboks consider the Nikes moronic hose jockeys. Both groups are wrong. Sorry.

Regarding the original post here, most stereotypes have a grain of truth. Stereotypes tend to range from slightly irritating to extremely hurtful but they share some common factors. Almost everyone knows at least one person for which a stereotype is accurate. Not even the most compulsive liar would argue that any stereotype was true of the entire group being (mis)represented. They're unnecessary. They're not going to go away.. Even the one's that people say are true are typically true of a tiny percentage of the people being stereotyped. It may be an obnoxiously loud percentage but it's still a tiny one! So, what is the solution? I'll propose three plans.

#1: We could install mind control software in every huiman's brain to make them behave in a more PC way.

#2:We could try to emulate the mighty duck and allow people's bullshit to slide off us as irrelevant.

#3: We could sue everyone and tie up the court system for years with frivolous lawsuits.

Only joking! Or "taking" as they say, "the piss" if you will :)The third option doesn't work. We've been trying it for years and it hasn't helped. My advice would be to try something between option one and option two. Closer to option two for my preference but that's just me. Thoughts?

[Kiwiology]

Only joking! Or "taking" as they say, "the piss" if you will

I am so proud of my Hoosier prodigy, you're learnding!

[DwayneEMTP]

I think that the error in the concept that one can't stereotype without also providing varied treatment is that you seem to assume that the stereotyping is somehow bigoted instead of simply a recognition of a common behavior within a certain population.

The comment on the 'hysterical black woman syndrome' or whatever it was. I has been my experience within the limited places that I have worked that this isn't an inaccurate description of many of the black patients that I've treated. If you use as a baseline the actual signs that experience has shown would normally be forced out of a patient by a given pathology, the exhibited behaviors appear to be exaggerated. It can sometimes be frustrating trying to separate fact from the cultural exaggeration. But this is their way. It's not good or bad, it just is. No different than being kind and competent to someone with dreadlocks, or tattoos, or that may be an illegal immigrant, or exaggerates their symptoms out of fear of being ignored or under treated.

When I trained animals it was my experience that the vast majority of the blacks that I trained for, or near, were terrified of dogs. Not just, nervous, but terrified. Have I created a negative stereotype than when I'm very cautious about approaching ANY black people when working with dogs out of a courtesy for the likely, fearful reaction?

I wasn't offended by his comment as this behavior isn't uncommon in many cultures. Though in our culture, in the states, we're supposed to pretend that we don't see it, as seeing it makes you a bigot.

I've seen it in the U.S., the Afghanis are hugely dramatic with minor conditions but heroically stoic when severely damaged (generalizing again). The Papuans, even when they speak English make it much like working on an unresponsive patient as their behavior is so far removed from their actual condition as to be nearly useless as a diagnostic aid. (Observed nearly 100% in over 100 patients now)

I've loved all of these patients, though do I somehow love them more should I pretend that what I see with my own eyes isn't really happening? The poster mentioned above was simply reporting, in a certainly un PC way, what he's experienced.

I was sitting with a black Safety officer on the oil spill in LA. One of the white women sitting next to us was telling a story about a friend that had started dating a black man. She said, "If she's going to lay down with niggers then she'd better expect to smell like a nigger in the morning." I really had no place in my brain for that kind of talk and asked the Safety officer, "That doesn't bother you?" He said, "No man, they're not talking about people like me." With my inexperience in this culture I'd naturally assumed that the term applied to all black people, but there are, it turns out, many distinctions for those that live there, though there remains none for me.

My point being this, I believe that some cultures have certain identifiable behavioral distinctions, and I don't believe that it makes you a bigot to recognize them. I don't know if it does if you laugh about them...That's not my way so I've never really given it much thought.

As to firefighters, I'm comfortable that those here that are in the fire services are comfortable with my respect for them. And if not I hope to be made aware of that. I've tried to make it clear that my beef is with the services, not individuals that prove to be professional. It's just been my experience that professional, intelligent firemen are the exception instead of the rule. As has been my experience with medics and basics as well.

I don't think that recognizing strengths, weaknesses, or cultural differences in a population dictates that there will be an automatic stereotyping of an individual. I expected all of the Afg men that I treated to have black hair, black eyes and olive skin. Yet sometimes they had blonde hair, blue eyes and freckles. Did I treat them different, or less because they didn't meet my stereotypical expectations? Possibly a little bit better, because I found them more interesting, but certainly no worse.

This should be a good one. Good job! Wendy!

But other than admiring the topic, what would be your opinion on it?

[EMTDenny]

I think that the error in the concept that one can't stereotype without also providing varied treatment is that you seem to assume that the stereotyping is somehow bigoted instead of simply a recognition of a common behavior within a certain population.

The comment on the 'hysterical black woman syndrome' or whatever it was. I has been my experience within the limited places that I have worked that this isn't an inaccurate description of many of the black patients that I've treated. If you use as a baseline the actual signs that experience has shown would normally be forced out of a patient by a given pathology, the exhibited behaviors appear to be exaggerated. It can sometimes be frustrating trying to separate fact from the cultural exaggeration. But this is their way. It's not good or bad, it just is. No different than being kind and competent to someone with dreadlocks, or tattoos, or that may be an illegal immigrant, or exaggerates their symptoms out of fear of being ignored or under treated.

When I trained animals it was my experience that the vast majority of the blacks that I trained for, or near, were terrified of dogs. Not just, nervous, but terrified. Have I created a negative stereotype than when I'm very cautious about approaching ANY black people when working with dogs out of a courtesy for the likely, fearful reaction?

I wasn't offended by his comment as this behavior isn't uncommon in many cultures. Though in our culture, in the states, we're supposed to pretend that we don't see it, as seeing it makes you a bigot.

I've seen it in the U.S., the Afghanis are hugely dramatic with minor conditions but heroically stoic when severely damaged (generalizing again). The Papuans, even when they speak English make it much like working on an unresponsive patient as their behavior is so far removed from their actual condition as to be nearly useless as a diagnostic aid. (Observed nearly 100% in over 100 patients now)

I've loved all of these patients, though do I somehow love them more should I pretend that what I see with my own eyes isn't really happening? The poster mentioned above was simply reporting, in a certainly un PC way, what he's experienced.

I was sitting with a black Safety officer on the oil spill in LA. One of the white women sitting next to us was telling a story about a friend that had started dating a black man. She said, "If she's going to lay down with niggers then she'd better expect to smell like a nigger in the morning." I really had no place in my brain for that kind of talk and asked the Safety officer, "That doesn't bother you?" He said, "No man, they're not talking about people like me." With my inexperience in this culture I'd naturally assumed that the term applied to all black people, but there are, it turns out, many distinctions for those that live there, though there remains none for me.

My point being this, I believe that some cultures have certain identifiable behavioral distinctions, and I don't believe that it makes you a bigot to recognize them. I don't know if it does if you laugh about them...That's not my way so I've never really given it much thought.

As to firefighters, I'm comfortable that those here that are in the fire services are comfortable with my respect for them. And if not I hope to be made aware of that. I've tried to make it clear that my beef is with the services, not individuals that prove to be professional. It's just been my experience that professional, intelligent firemen are the exception instead of the rule. As has been my experience with medics and basics as well.

I don't think that recognizing strengths, weaknesses, or cultural differences in a population dictates that there will be an automatic stereotyping of an individual. I expected all of the Afg men that I treated to have black hair, black eyes and olive skin. Yet sometimes they had blonde hair, blue eyes and freckles. Did I treat them different, or less because they didn't meet my stereotypical expectations? Possibly a little bit better, because I found them more interesting, but certainly no worse.

But other than admiring the topic, what would be your opinion on it?

to be completely honest. I really don't think I have anything to say. My mind is blank! Plus I am still reading what you guys are saying. Maybe soon..

[Vorenus]

It's come to my attention that we on the City are often very inconsistent as to what biases we will accept, and what kinds of "stereotyping" we take for granted.

For example... the shit storm of a thread prompted by a single joke about hysterical black woman syndrome. Wow! Just looked at that this morning... and I gotta say... holy Jesus (hey, zeus!) what a mess. On the one hand, you have the ethical provider, with a no-tolerance policy... (but nobody likes someone who likes to point out the rules...) On the other, you have folks saying "well, we've seen it... and no, we don't treat patients differently..."

But I challenge you.... how can a stereotype NOT influence how you view someone? The second you know they are (let's keep the original group here) a black woman, you're going to have that little joke pop up in your head... and consciously or unconsciously, the way you interact will be influenced. Doubly so if you happen to be a different race than said black woman. We could get into comparative racial psychology, if anyone wishes... that's a tangled web all unto itself, my friends.

But wait! There are those who purport that just knowing someone is in a certain group won't change how they interact with that person... and then turn around and DO THE VERY THING THEY SAY THEY WOULDN'T. Want to know what group I'm referring to?

Depends all on your personal view and experiences.

A stereotype can sometimes be seen as "common knowledge" or even as facts by people who have had no other experiences with the topic/thing/persons the stereotype refers to. By having had no personal contact to the topic the stereotype refers to, the content of the named is the only source of information about it and is easily taken as the truth, either unconsciously or by lack of interest to inform oneself to make a personal picture.

If someone has experiences with topics/things/persons and adds certain characteristics to them, which he applies to all of them - that I would rather call a prejudice than a stereotype.

To concur: Stereotype - a wide range of believe are affected by this belief. Prejudice - affects yourself.

Of course both are mixed or have the some context quite often.

But it`s easier to overcome the belief a stereotypical picture paints, than it is to overcome your personal prejudices.

Anyone who tells me he has no prejudices whatsoever is either a liar or a machine with a pretty authentic AI.

The most important thing is, not to allow your prejudices to influence your patient care.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Vorenus

[runswithneedles]

Okay. I know that was my comment. And might I ask why are comments such as this prevalent in the EMS community. Laughed at for the most part when the comment is made in the ambulance barn. But when I posted it on a forum I get smacked on the head with a news paper like the puppy who peed on the carpet. The people who make those comments are generally good emts and medics that are not biased or rasicst and in fact or dumping on their own race. So wheres the line crossing from bias to biggot. (please correct me if the terminology is wrong. My brain was fried from anatomy and physiology)

[DwayneEMTP]

Actually Brother, she mentioned a statement like yours, plus others. Nothing personal here...great question though.