Would you consider this a line of duty death?

[dstevens58]

Not to get off-topic completely, but I remember back when my dad was the volunteer fire-fighter and I was just a young elementary school student only dreaming of becoming a fire fighter (probably a good 45 years ago).

The same volunteer organization I presently belong to, was having a community Halloween dance and a fire call came out. I heard stories come out of someone riding the back of the fire truck in a devil's costume.

[Vorenus]

The same volunteer organization I presently belong to, was having a community Halloween dance and a fire call came out. I heard stories come out of someone riding the back of the fire truck in a devil's costume.

Lol, now that`s just style!

I dunno, I`m not really familiar with the whole concept of LODD - I mean, we have them here too, but I thing you guys ritualize them alot more (which is kinda nice),

So, without much thinking about it - I`d say yes. I mean, in the end, they did what they were supposed to do: putting out that fire.

[Happiness]

Early in my career I went to a call in a dress and this is why

1. I was at my birthday party (thats why I was in a dress)

2. There was no one on call

3. It was a cardiac call

4. Because it just happened that way

These guys did what they had to do, no one got hurt and in reality we dont have to worry about them being a Darwin award. I saw this on the tube and a reported noticed the one guy fussing with his straps and asked the other why it appeared he didnt have an issue with his, well his dress was strapless People will do what people do in any situation and there will always be those that find fault in everything. I bet the people that were around had a good giggle, the fire was faught and put out and the parade went on.......I think I might suggest this to our VFF as a fundraiser because maybe if people thought this was all they had to wear to fires they might donate enough for our crew to get new gear

[Chief1C]

If there was a theme to the parade, that's one thing - but they should be marching without identification. Just my opinion. That would be a disgrace to the agency, here. Unless it was for a cause, like for cancer research fund raising; like "I care enough to wear pink". They even sell pink fire helmets for that. However, we take trucks to parades all the time, show some community pride. The one thing that most trucks have, is space that can't be utilized. There's always room on top of something, between feet on the floor.. or under the hose bed cover, dunage compartment, etc.. to put your gear. Even if we're just training, or pumping..or filling a pool. The people on the truck, take their gear. It's still a fire truck. Even if you're in another area, suppose they need a hand with a call? Bam, you have your gear, you don it; and good to go. No gear, no play. That's an example of complacency, and complacency kills. Never had a fire during a parade, but we did have a tornado warning.

[Richard B the EMT]

Volunteers claim to never be off duty, by choice. An EMT from a nearby squad, traveling to pick up paperwork for the law firm he was gainfully employed at, responded to an "Aircraft versus Building" incident, to try and help. No gear, no turnouts.

He ended up being one of the 18 EMTs and Paramedics who were killed in the collapse of the World Trade Center.

Rest In Peace, Richard Pearlman, of Forest Hills Volunteer Ambulance Corps. Line Of Duty Death: September 11, 2001.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Richard B the EMT

[HERBIE1]

I guess my question is- where WAS their bunker gear? Was it in their personal vehicles, since clearly it was not on their rig. Apparently they were not in service, so they assumed they would not need to put their gear on the apparatus.

Let's look at it from this angle. You are driving with your family, and happen upon a bad accident- motor vehicle, fall- whatever. It happens right in front of you- nowhere to go. It's pretty bloody, and you have no equipment or PPE with you. What do you do? Ignore the situation, jump in and help as much as possible until an EMS unit arrives- knowing full well you don't have a pair of gloves to protect your hands? Could you just walk away from something like this when you know you could possibly help? I couldn't.

Has anyone ever done mouth to mouth on an infant because there was no other choice?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do not have any equipment in my personal car- never did. I've also never been a volunteer where I may be called out anytime, anywhere. Have I attended to someone off duty, without gloves or any other equipment for protection?

Yep. And I would do it again. Do I go out of my way to put myself in such situations? Hell no.

Look- these guys jumped in and did their jobs. Is it an ideal situation? Nope, and I'm sure they would prefer bunker gear over dresses if they had a choice. And God forbid if something bad happened, it would be up to the insurance companies and/or pension funds whether or not they would honor a line of duty death. LOD is also defined differently by the folks who may need to pay benefits, and by the organization they work for.

Sometimes we take calculated risks- it's what we do.

[spenac]

Nope. There is no excuse for them not to have carried their bunker gear with them on the fire truck. They allowed their desire to look like hero's override common sense thus they deserve no respect for the choice.

[DwayneEMTP]

But Herbie, you're not compare apples to apples when you compare risk for saving life to risk to saving property, right?

[HERBIE1]

But Herbie, you're not compare apples to apples when you compare risk for saving life to risk to saving property, right?

We were talking about PPE- risking your life one way or another. In fire, it's an immediate thing(we'll forget for a moment the inhalation of toxic gases during overhaul, which will catch up with you later, etc), and with EMS it's the possibility of contracting an illness.

If you neglect to wear the right gear or take the proper precautions, you end up just as dead.

Nope. There is no excuse for them not to have carried their bunker gear with them on the fire truck. They allowed their desire to look like hero's override common sense thus they deserve no respect for the choice.

Yeah, actually there IS a very good excuse.Unless the crew is on duty and temporarily doing a special event with their apparatus, if they are assuming a parade, social, or ceremonial function, they usually do NOT have their gear with them. They still may have a fully functional apparatus(hose, water in the booster tank, tools, all fittings and other equipment), but it is simply not in service to respond to emergencies.

[Richard B the EMT]

Anyone remember an episode of "Emergency", where Johnny and Roy were on their 1920s-1930s Engine company, dressed as period fire fighters? They saw a smoke head, and responded in, ringing the engine's bell. Those in the affected building didn't believe they actually were LACoFD, and a wall collapsed onto the little old engine.