Would you consider this a line of duty death?

[paramedicmike]

I'm confused as to the question. Did one of those guys die? If not, then the answer is no.

[Happiness]

Come to think of it in our VFF department all the bunker gear is in lockers in the station not in the trucks. So I guess they dont always have it with them

[kreamer10]

Come to think of it in our VFF department all the bunker gear is in lockers in the station not in the trucks. So I guess they dont always have it with them

I really believe that if you get on the truck, you bring your gear. Where is the truck? Same place your gear is "stored in lockers". Throw your gear on the truck.

I still stand by my statement that they acted irresponsibly but, as has been mentioned, How many LODD have been caused by a mistake that could have been avoided? Are we going to start judging if they deserve that title or are we going to grin, bear it and call them a hero?

[craig]

Sometimes we take calculated risks- it's what we do.

Yes a CALCULATED risk maybe, but attending a fire in inappropriate gear to save a car on fire when NO life was in danger is not a CALCULATED risk...it is just plain STUPID

Yeah, actually there IS a very good excuse.Unless the crew is on duty and temporarily doing a special event with their apparatus, if they are assuming a parade, social, or ceremonial function, they usually do NOT have their gear with them. They still may have a fully functional apparatus(hose, water in the booster tank, tools, all fittings and other equipment), but it is simply not in service to respond to emergencies.

the point exactly is that they were NOT IN SERVICE....they may have had a fully operational truck, but by NO MEANS WERE THEY......They were OUT OF SERVICE

I'm confused as to the question. Did one of those guys die? If not, then the answer is no.

no need to be confused mike......they didnt die,,, they may have "died" of embarassment of being caught out fighting a no gain fire in lady's clothing and then HAVING people from across the WHOLE WORLD laughing and commenting about them.......

I still stand by my statement that they acted irresponsibly but, as has been mentioned, How many LODD have been caused by a mistake that could have been avoided? Are we going to start judging if they deserve that title or are we going to grin, bear it and call them a hero?

irresponsible?..... YES

do they deserve the title of LODD?......well they are still breathing (luckily), so what do you think?

grin and bear is and call them HERO?....NOT BLOODY LIKELY....More like IDIOTS, MORONS, FORTUNATE ONES.....maybe they could be more appropriate.........

Edited March 23, 2012 by craig

[kreamer10]

irresponsible?..... YES

do they deserve the title of LODD?......well they are still breathing (luckily), so what do you think?

grin and bear is and call them HERO?....NOT BLOODY LIKELY....More like IDIOTS, MORONS, FORTUNATE ONES.....maybe they could be more appropriate.........

I think you may be taking my point out of context.

1.) The discussion is not whether or not they deserve to be known as a LODD as we all know that they were not injured or killed, the discussion was a hypothetical one that IF they had been..

2.) So you are saying every over zealous new EMT or FF who was responding too fast to a call (a silly mistake) that hits a tree and is killed should be known as a "Idiot, Moron"? I hope that is not what you think as a matter of fact I am sure that I am now taking what you mean out of context, if so, I am sorry.

That is my point. We should not judge them by the mistakes but rather by their intentions. These men, along with THOUSANDS of others have taken shortcuts, gone too fast or have been just plain LUCKY too. Many of them have died and we call them Heroes, despite the mistakes that ended up causing their demise.

[HERBIE1]

Yes a CALCULATED risk maybe, but attending a fire in inappropriate gear to save a car on fire when NO life was in danger is not a CALCULATED risk...it is just plain STUPID the point exactly is that they were NOT IN SERVICE....they may have had a fully operational truck, but by NO MEANS WERE THEY......They were OUT OF SERVICE no need to be confused mike......they didnt die,,, they may have "died" of embarassment of being caught out fighting a no gain fire in lady's clothing and then HAVING people from across the WHOLE WORLD laughing and commenting about them.......

irresponsible?..... YES

do they deserve the title of LODD?......well they are still breathing (luckily), so what do you think?

grin and bear is and call them HERO?....NOT BLOODY LIKELY....More like IDIOTS, MORONS, FORTUNATE ONES.....maybe they could be more appropriate.........

OK- not sure why everyone is fixated on the "hero" thing, but whatever. Silly, stupid, unnecessary- yeah. Should they have ignored that car fire and drove past it? Maybe, but if that were my car, I would be glad they at least attempted to help. Using a hand line from a distance is really not much of a risk. Now if they decided to go into a structure fire like that- well obviously they should all immediately submit to a drug and alcohol test, and if they passed that, a full psych exam. I have no problem bashing FF's when the situation warrants, but I am not sure why we have all the hate here on this.

[paramedicmike]

2.) So you are saying every over zealous new EMT or FF who was responding too fast to a call (a silly mistake) that hits a tree and is killed should be known as a "Idiot, Moron"? I hope that is not what you think as a matter of fact I am sure that I am now taking what you mean out of context, if so, I am sorry.

Ok. Trying not to take you comments out of context as I think I understand what you're driving at. But responding too fast, hitting a tree and dying because they were new and over-zealous is not a "silly" mistake. It is stupid, careless, thoughtless, wreckless and entirely preventable. To say otherwise is disingenuous and gives more credit than is due.

Should they be known as those adjectives? No. Should those adjectives be applied in the scenario you set forth? Should they be applied in this scenario regarding the FFs in dresses? There is a very strong argument for yes.

That is my point. We should not judge them by the mistakes but rather by their intentions. These men, along with THOUSANDS of others have taken shortcuts, gone too fast or have been just plain LUCKY too. Many of them have died and we call them Heroes, despite the mistakes that ended up causing their demise.

Their intentions and their actions are two separate factors to be considered. It is entirely possible to have the most noble of intentions and the most moronically stupid actions. I would also counter your argument that those who have died being called heroes were only done so publicly. Those who knew the facts involved most likely shook their heads in utter amazement at the stupidity demonstrated that resulted in their deaths (in appropriately stupid situations). Those in the know may not say so publicly. But they know and talk about it behind closed doors.

We are among those in the know. We know better. We're supposed to. It's what helps us get home safely at the end of our shift. We can recognize and separate stupidity in action from noble intentions. If we don't or can't then we endanger ourselves and others.

We, collectively, are supposed to be better than that. These guys in question either didn't know or didn't care.

edit: point clarification; no contextual changes made.

Edited March 24, 2012 by paramedicmike

[Happiness]

we all are irrisponsible at some time in our careers and shit happens. I personally got a giggle out of it and to tell you the truth I told our ff to make a calander of all of them in a dress. And they might just do that Edited March 24, 2012 by Happiness

[ackmaui]

Nope. There is no excuse for them not to have carried their bunker gear with them on the fire truck. They allowed their desire to look like hero's override common sense thus they deserve no respect for the choice.

While they should have had their bunker gear, to say that their desire to look like heroes overrode common sense is without proof. They saw a fire, they put it out...job done. Would we be having this discussion if they were in tuxes? I think not.

[paramedicmike]

While they should have had their bunker gear, to say that their desire to look like heroes overrode common sense is without proof. They saw a fire, they put it out...job done. Would we be having this discussion if they were in tuxes? I think not.

Actually, with this group, we would be having the same discussion.

Welcome to the forums. Stick around and see what you can learn.