Do you ever feel annoyed?

[ERDoc]

I think it is a good thing for a new person to necrobump. They bring in a new view/perspective. Who knows, maybe it will bring on a new discussion that would not have been had if it weren't for the bump. Maybe the literature has changed since the thread died and new things can be discussed.

[EMT City Administrator]

Generally if a thread has been dead for almost a year and a half, like this one and some of the others you've commented on, the discussion has pretty much run its course.

Ummm.. not necessarily. Anyone that has something to add is welcome to do so. The other option is he could start a new thread and then everyone would jump on him to use the search feature as there is already a thread on it.

Please feel free to contribute to any post you want.

[Secouriste]

The question of pain treatment is very interesting.

Here is France we have no paramedics (it's either "EMT-Basic" or a doctor that arrives on scene) so if you have a limb injury without immediate vital threat you can be sure you'll get an EMT-B crew. Such crew doesn't do any kind of pain treatment. The only question I ask myself when I respond this kind of call is: "Can I take this person to the hospital without him/her screaming in pain?" If yes, then go, if I cannot move the pt because of the pain => Call EMS to get a Mobile Hospital Unit.

There are two problems here:

- Our advanced units aren't meant to perform "just" an IV to treat pain, so it really takes a serious situation (or a good negotiation) to get one "just" for the pain.

- Pain treatment in (non-vital) traumas in an issue that arose very late in France, where doctors are only starting to be told it shouldn't be overlooked.

The solution would be to:

- Allow nurses to respond call on their own, following protocols or even the doctor's instruction via phone.

- "Upgrade" the EMT-B to be able to perform some basic IV (only on the doctor's order).

But this is not going to happen anytime soon...

About the "ambulance abuse", I'll give you an evocative example:

Call:

> Wounded person

> Female 27

> Burn located on the right hand.

Ok, we arrive on scene to discover the women has been cooking and had received a tiny drop of boiling oil on her right hand. She had a blister no bigger than the smaller coin u can find... In other word, nothing. We were pissed, really, why not calling an ambulance next time I hit my foot against a piece of furniture.

We asked her why she'd called and she said "I didn't know what to do."

See? People here have no first aid education whatsoever... We try our best to train people and have them come and take our first aid lessons but we're not helped at all.

The other issue here is why on earth the dispatcher sent us? Maybe because we've come to a time when people aren't responsible and worst than that, will try to blame others when things go wrong. So our dispatchers would rather send an ambulance to "make sure there is nothing" rather than making the headlines the following days.

[Just Plain Ruff]

TOk, we arrive on scene to discover the women has been cooking and had received a tiny drop of boiling oil on her right hand. She had a blister no bigger than the smaller coin u can find... In other word, nothing. We were pissed, really, why not calling an ambulance next time I hit my foot against a piece of furniture.

We asked her why she'd called and she said "I didn't know what to do."

See? People here have no first aid education whatsoever... We try our best to train people and have them come and take our first aid lessons but we're not helped at all.

The other issue here is why on earth the dispatcher sent us? Maybe because we've come to a time when people aren't responsible and worst than that, will try to blame others when things go wrong. So our dispatchers would rather send an ambulance to "make sure there is nothing" rather than making the headlines the following days.

Wow the proverbial stubbed toe happens in France too?????

[ERDoc]

I'm curious if there is any country/locality that allows the EMS crew to say, "You don't have an emergency, you need to find a way to the hospital." And then provides true protection for them.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I would bet that any third world country that has an ambulance would have that type of protection. It would be interesting to hear from our friends in these types of countries.

From what I understand the courts just don't give patients the same rights as they do in america. We all know that in the US it's you call we haul but in other less (sue happy) countries, I would hazard to say that you call, doesn't always necessitate a we haul designation.

Anyone care to weigh in on this out there in Africa or Eastern Europe?

[Caduceus]

Well in the countries you speak of they don't have enough ambulances to go around to begin with. Most of the time they don't even have a centralized emergency call system like 911, and in more rural and isolated areas the entire EMS system is based off of random volunteers trained in first aid that are pulled of the street.

Because of that, I'm certain that there are certainly times when they just leave a patient without any worries of getting in legal trouble.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I contributed to a Indiegogo campaign just in the last couple of months that provides some semblance of 911 in undeveloped or under developed countries. It's called http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/beacon-911-where-there-is-none

I felt it offered a semblence of promise and they are not near ready but they do have a great idea.

I believe their first major push to provide services is in Haiti. I am pretty sure that their goal is to be in at least three countries with very minimal EMS systems by the end of next year.

It's a pretty neat system that they are putting together but I don't know if 41K is going to get them into 3 countries, let alone Haiti. But they have a vision and a mission and I hope it's successful.

Ruff.

[Caduceus]

Yeah I read about that program a couple days ago actually. It's a pretty neat one but like you said even in one country is gonna be a challenge. They'll get there eventually, though, and in the long term this may be more effective a cause than Doctors Without Borders.