British Citizen with American EMT-B cert visiting Australia!

[rock_shoes]

The five regions with the toughest overall educational standard to work in EMS (excluding physician deployment) in no particular order are Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. Just in case you missed it, the US doesn't make the list.

The US misses the list because it has the most wildly variable educational standards for ALS providers I've ever seen. Some programs are exceptionally good and I would wager at least on par with Canadian programs. Other programs are abysmal 6 month zero to hero cowboy bullshit. It's the variability in quality that screws over US medics both in terms of certification portability and renumeration. If you want maximum worldwide portability I suggest training in one of those five places.

In the end I have to question your preparedness for EMS in general if you think a three week first aid course like the EMT-B is going to get you anywhere outside of the US.

[krumel]

Regarding Australia: The minimum level would be an "Ambulancer officer"... This is still more training than an EMT-B & as far as I know there is no service that hires AOs anymore (and the AO grade is only given to students, beside some older "left-overs").

(And beside that your scope of practice looks smaller than a AOs one in most services)

Technically there is the chance to get a (at least temporary) visa as an EMT-B in AUS. But: Seen realistically it is impossible. There are enough people with normal paramedic-degree trying to get into the country (and failing).

Seen realistically the state ambulance services (and the two state-contracted services) won't hire you. So the mining industry and the "event-medicial"& patient transport companies are left.

The mining industry is strongly going for MICA-Paramedics and/or Paramedics with an double degree (nursing/paramedic) or a community paramedic-master. Personally I know a lot of aussie medics that are trying to get into the mining industry for years (or it took them years). The patient transport companies and event medic-companies would hardly be able to sponsor you as fulltime-work and a certain wage is a requirement.

If you come over with another persons visa: Try it with the above mentioned (event medics and patient transport)...and get a recognized qualification (=> Uni-Degree).

Regarding Germany: An american EMT-P can be recognized as a "Rettungsassistent" (the highest possible training level for "non-doctors"), the local goverment bodies (of the regions) are responsible for that. But it would mean serious deskilling as the scope of practice in Germany is reduced (not to mention the pay) and the system is (in most regions) very doctor-on-scene-based.

[paramedicmike]

Also, it is interesting that Australia doesn't seem too impressed with the EMT-B certification considering I was nationally certified in advanced airway techniques. I pretty much was able to do everything but Intravenous drugs.

Not as an American trained, "nationally certified" EMT-B you weren't. The National Registry of EMTs is the only national certifying agency and they do not allow EMTs to perform advanced airway techniques. Nor would you be able to do "everything but itravenous drugs". In the US, EMT-B is a bare bones glorified first aid course.

As was mentioned previously, there are many reasons why EMS education in the US is not widely regarded. That would make an entire discussion in itself.

[Kiwiology]

Also, it is interesting that Australia doesn't seem too impressed with the EMT-B certification

MAS required a two year Diploma of Applied Science (Ambulance) as far back as 1971 so why should they be?

Does Australia not have a layered qualification system like the US?

Yes it does but again, the minimum requirement is a Bachelors Degree

Australia: Paramedic (3 year Bachelors Degree) and Intensive Care Paramedic (Post Bachelor Diploma)

New Zealand: Paramedic (3 year Bachelors Degree) and Intensive Care Paramedic (Post Bachelor Certificate)

Canada: Primary Care Paramedic (2 year Diploma) and Advanced Care Paramedic (1 year Post-Diploma)

UK: Paramedic (2 year Foundation Degree or 3 year Bachelors Degree)

South Africa: Emergency Care Technician (2 year nCert) and Emergency Care Practitioner (4 year BTech)

It's also possible to do 1 year PCP (EMT) and 2 year ACP (EMTP) in Alberta or BC; Ontario is 2:1

I am assuming full paramedic qualifications would be an absolute necessity.

EMTP might get you looked at but it is no guarantee. I know an EMTP from US who was turned away from ASNSW as even tho he was EMTP they considered his education inadequate. Some EMTPs from US have been employed here but they are employed as Technicians and worked up to ICP over 12 months.

Since the UK have decided to turn this into a degree, I'd have to wait for 3 years to qualify plus years of experience on top.

Not sure what you mean?

What is the lowest qualification in over there?

State Registered Paramedic which now requires a two year Foundation Degree

Don't be fooled, the ECA/ECSW is not allowed to independently treat patients and "assists" the registered Paramedic

Edited April 29, 2012 by Kiwiology

[chbare]

A three year bachelor's degree, interesting. I've had to do associate degree programmes that took three years, too bad I wasn't awarded a bachelor's.

[Kiwiology]

There are a few differences here

- We do 13 years of high school (as does AU) so a Bachelors is only 3 years

- A Diploma ("Associates") is a Level 5 qualification whereas a Bachelors Degree is Level 7 (a PhD is Level 10)

- There is no "general education" our degrees consist entirely of "major" or "upper division" coursework

- No course has "pre-requisites" (certain classes might e.g. ABC102 might have ABC101 as a pre-req but that's different)

- All health care professions* require a Bachelors Degree of between three and six years duration

- Nurses have required a two year Diploma since 1971 and a Bachelors Degree since 1993

- Intensive Care Paramedic has been a two year Diploma since 1995 and is now a Post-Bachelor Certificate (1/3rd of Masters)

* Health professional means Chiropractor, Dentist, Dental hygienist, Clinical dental technologist. Dental technologist, Dental therapist, Dietitian, Medical Laboratory Scientist, Anaesthetic Technician, Medical Radiation Technologist, Medical Practitioner, Midwife, Nurse, Occupational Therapist, Optometrist, Dispensing Optician, Osteopath, Pharmacist, Physiotherapist, Podiatrist. Psychologist or Psychotherapist and from next year a Paramedic or Intensive Care Paramedic

Edited April 29, 2012 by Kiwiology

[chbare]

No gen ed hu? So, no chemistry, physics, humanities, mathematics and so on?

[rock_shoes]

No gen ed hu? So, no chemistry, physics, humanities, mathematics and so on?

My understanding is they do those general education type courses during that additional year of highschool.

[Kiwiology]

No gen ed hu? So, no chemistry, physics, humanities, mathematics and so on?

Not at university level unless you want to study those subjects

My understanding is they do those general education type courses during that additional year of highschool.

Partially correct; you can if you want but there is no requirement. For example science (general science so a little bit of everything) is compulsory until Year 11 (of 13) then in Years 12 and 13 you can do full year chemistry, biology etc. English and math are required until Year 12. Year 13 is not even technically required if your grades are high enough you can get entry to uni (it's their discretion) but if you pass Year 13 you get automatic entry. Nursing requires a minimum number of science credits and if you don't have them then you get conditional entry and just have to do the human body function class in summer semester before nursing starts. Medicine (along with optometry, physiotherapy, the 3 dental degrees, med lab science etc) have a common competitive first year where you study common subjects and are selected into the relevant professional program. Gone are the days when a high enough mark in Year 13 got you into medicine.

[chbare]

That makes a certain amount of sense. I guess I'm simply questioning this bachelor's degree concept. It is not particularly difficult because it feels as though I'm reminded on a daily basis about the inadequacies of American education. Anecdotally, I've worked with many different types of providers from around the world, many fine providers. However, I've never felt that their education put them ahead of me. They do not appear to understand the science any better, perform stoichometry any better or find the derivative of a function any better than myself. I am not particularly intelligent either, nor am I an outlier in terms of intelligence or cognitive abilities. Again, some of the best and most professional folks I have had the pleasure to work with are bachelor's educated medics not educated in the United States.

I don't know, perhaps I am a little tired of the standard comments or I've developed educational jet lag from working on my bachelor's degree, where I've yet to appreciate any significant yield from these supposedly upper level classes.