Staging per law enforcement

[Arctickat]

I've learned over the decades that swallowing my pride and letting an aggressor believe that I am being submissive to his will tends to diffuse many situations. Even something like looking for the leader of a group and acknowledging the power he has over them can solve the problem. Saying something to him like, "Hey, this guy here is in really bad shape, but I'm worried about that group of guys over there, They look kinda threatening, Could you watch my back while I try to help this guy?"

Lots of these guys can be manipulated to suit your needs....just maintain an awareness of whats going on and evac quickly.

[Just Plain Ruff]

There is one thing I've learned over the years is that there is one policy that I will follow to the letter and that is the staging policy. If dispatch tells me to stage then I stage. The policy is there for a reason. The law enforcement has determined that there at the time is a clear and present danger in the type of call that came in and they advised that EMS and Fire is to stage until they clear the scene. I'm good with that.

If the OP decides to over-rule the orders of dispatch and law enforcement to stage and not go in until the scene is cleared then they need to be aware that they take all the risks if the scene were to go bad and something were to happen.

I have a question to the OP. Are you willing to look your partners spouse and children in the eyes and tell them that it was you that made the decision to go against the dispatch and law enforcements statements to stage. Are you willing to tell your partners family that you felt that it was safe to go in?

If you can say that you felt that since you knew the people involved or "your spidey sense" (insert sarcasm here) that you felt it just OKEY DOKEY. They have staging rules for a reason. This is sometimes the reason why medics get shot and killed.

Ultimately the decision to enter the scene is yours, but remember when the shit hits the fan and law enforcement is still 20 minutes out, it was your decision to enter the scene and you better have some way of getting out of the scene by yourself until they get there. And when you can't get out of the scene, just remember that many of us here told you that you were taking a HUGE risk doing it. Not that I think really think you will listen to reason though.

[nypamedic43]

If I'm told to stage, I stage. No questions asked. Mine and my partners safety is the most important thing. What I am reading in the OP's post is arrogance. That arrogance can get you killed...quickly. I've worked rural areas too. I knew most of the people in the area, however once meth hit the area several years ago, the people I thought I knew, were not the same.

Now the OP's call was a bit different but I got called for difficulty breathing at 2 am. I knew the address, knew the people that lived there. I was totally unprepared for what was in the house...guns everywhere...very paranoid people milling about and lots and lots of meth making paraphanalia. The guy we were there for was sitting next to the door, we grabbed him and made tracks. Had we known what exactly was going on in the house, we wouldnt have gone in. We would have called and waited for law enforcement. Lesson learned. Just because you "know" most of the people in the area doesnt mean you "know" whats really going on with them. You take a huge risk if you go againt the staging policy. Is it worth that risk?

[Lotus]

It's very kind to trust your patients that much and willing to go against orders to help them, but I'm pretty sure no one wants to see you hurt or sad if a partner dies or you get injured. Plus, what about future patients that could be saved because of you and your family and friends and your partner's too? Safety is way more important. I know I wouldn't be the only one really sad if something bad ever happened to you :c Always better to be safe than sorry.

[Just Plain Ruff]

It's very kind to trust your patients that much and willing to go against orders to help them, but I'm pretty sure no one wants to see you hurt or sad if a partner dies or you get injured. Plus, what about future patients that could be saved because of you and your family and friends and your partner's too? Safety is way more important. I know I wouldn't be the only one really sad if something bad ever happened to you :c Always better to be safe than sorry.

Miss Stephanie Speaks truth and she hasn't even run a single call.

Even if every call you run and stage on turns out to in the end be safe, There is that one that will not be safe and that one you will end up waking up DEAD! How will you explain that to whoever your maker is?

[croaker260]

Every time I even think about taking that chance....I remember this call from my hometown (no I wasnt involved).

Not only did the LT in charge pay with her life, but because her crew looked to her to make the right decision, (wich she clearly did not make) , they almost did to. As did the transport crew that pulled right into the line of fire thinking it was safe because they trusted the first in crew to make a good descision.

http://www.hultgren....owan/index.html

http://www.emsworld....nt-crime-scenes

I am sometimes willing to risk my life...but am I willing to risk my partners lives, or those who come in to bail me out of a stupid situation I should have never been in to begin with? How is that fair to them?

Food for thought.

Our job is risky enough , without us making it STUPID-RISKY.

Edited May 2, 2012 by croaker260

[emtdennis]

I stick with the first two rules of any call "BSI" and "scene safety". LEOs are far better equipped if there is a safety issue, and a scene can go south on you in a heartbeat if you are the only one in there.

As EMT's of varying degrees, we are in this to help the person in an emergency, but I would not want my agency to have to come out and get me, cuz I rushed into a scene.

I also have a life, and the good Lord willing, I hope for it to be a long and good one!!

Just me rambling on!!!!!

[Dooger]

I'm with djdudley on this.

When I was younger and more cavalier in my "hero" mentality, and before I had a family, we routinely entered scenes that we should have staged for, and for all kinds of reasons/rationale. While some here have said they may risk their own lif,e they hesitate risking their partner or other responders. I suppose that is a basic rule of thumb to go by if you're single or don't have family who would miss you if you made a bad decision. I have a wife, three kids and an extended family who would feel the loss for a cavalier approach gone wrong.

OD, assault, domestic... I didn't put them in their bad situation, I'm certainly not going to risk my life to give them another chance. I'll stay out until I have the properly trained & equipped personnel there to provide that added measure of safety for everyone. Could someone die because i decided to be safe? Of course. As long as its not me or my colleagues. Remember, we dont have to make their emergency or bad decision our emergency or bad decision too.

Stage & wait. I want to go home to hug my kids at the end of a shift.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Dooger