How skilled are Paramedics when it comes to response driving ?

[eduard]

· Causal and Consequential factors of Paramedic motor-vehicle accidents, recommendations to reduce these accidents.

Edited May 3, 2012 by eduard

[BlueSkies]

A few things come to my mind on this issue. I will be brief and give everyone else a chance to ellaborate.

1. Long hours at work. Before I left the streets back in 08 there had been ongoing talk for some time about the possibility of insurance companies either raising their rates or refusing to insure EMS services that stil rotated on 24 hour shifts. Long hours and no sleep can and has been proven to be deadly to the workers and the public.

2. How many other professions do you know of besides EMS and the fire service where an 18-21 year old (depending on insurance policies) jump into an ambulance or firetruck, flip on the lights and sirens and take off down the road after a 1 or 2 day EVOC class? The inexperience of some of the drivers are to my mind yet another cause.

My two biggest recommendations would be to do away with the 24 hours shifts and require someone under tha age of 25 to have not only an EVOC class but several months to a year of documented supervised driving with a senior co worker.

Will these happen anytime soon?? Probably not but that's me on my soapbox for a minute.

[runswithneedles]

A few things come to my mind on this issue. I will be brief and give everyone else a chance to ellaborate.

1. Long hours at work. Before I left the streets back in 08 there had been ongoing talk for some time about the possibility of insurance companies either raising their rates or refusing to insure EMS services that stil rotated on 24 hour shifts. Long hours and no sleep can and has been proven to be deadly to the workers and the public.

2. How many other professions do you know of besides EMS and the fire service where an 18-21 year old (depending on insurance policies) jump into an ambulance or firetruck, flip on the lights and sirens and take off down the road after a 1 or 2 day EVOC class? The inexperience of some of the drivers are to my mind yet another cause.

My two biggest recommendations would be to do away with the 24 hours shifts and require someone under tha age of 25 to have not only an EVOC class but several months to a year of documented supervised driving with a senior co worker.

Will these happen anytime soon?? Probably not but that's me on my soapbox for a minute.

Dude. Im looking at being a paramedic in less than 3 months. And ive taken two drivers ed courses. no tickets no wrecks within the last 3 years neither of which were of my own fault (both when I was 16). Ive been driving since I was fourteen and most of those vehicles were full sized luxury suvs with a similar profile to vanbaulances through multi weather conditions including several trips to the rockies where the sleet and snow came out of no where. And I can tell you I drive those trucks better than a 20 year vet.

You know what my first truck I drove. A 2004 freightliner medium duty. Than my next one which I had a 8 month bond with was a type III 2003 E450 7.3 L powerstroke diesel with a rebuilt motor and transmisission with a MEDTEC box. I ran that truck code three in rural and city streets.

Experience with a senior officer dont mean squat. Hell for all you know he might end up teaching him how get the truck to turboshift thorugh gears and prematurely wear out the clutch so they can accelerate faster . or burn up a rear differential from excessive speeds going code three or just a very high speed limit for long distances

You get the rescue randy jitters out of them and run them through scenarios. Assign him to one truck and only one. Have him become "in tune" with his box. Hippyish I know but when I did it it didnt just become an ambulance it became "my truck". It was the cleanest of the entire fleet and I checked fluids on it like clock work before and after shift and rode the mechanics ass religiously when it was about due for something or something was acting up with it. And with that kind of pride you learn to respect your truck and like your limits you learn its. And as far as driving it once all of that is acquired the rest is comes as common sense (low lying poles, trees, electrical wires, diesel truck not meant for hauling ass, potholes are 5 times worse in the back as they are in the front as with the stopping. Its a true bond between man and machine.Thats something a newbie cant learn if hes flipping through a truck a shift. Is when A truck is acting right and when A truck is in need of a mechanics loving hands.

Im 20 years old and ive busted my ass and have been turned away because off **** like you pushing to get me off the truck because im a liability. Ive been driving a box for two years now and have run 40+ HOURS NO SLEEP LIKE THE REST OF YOU!!! hell why dont you increase your emt minimum age requirement since thats all an emt is worth anyways besides a basic lifting service and applying O2.

Try getting that out of a two day EVOC course.

Im now off my troll spree and my soap box. Note to paramedic mike and Dwayne. I am tired however I am coherent when i write this post. but its pencil pushing crap like this thats caused me to be automatically turned away by three different nearby 911 units because of the very thing gulfmedic pointed out and further have those services hire someone less qualified than myself

Edited May 3, 2012 by runswithneedles

[eduard]

I noted that you state that you have been driving since 16 years old and also that you completed drivers courses..... Would you say that this contribute to you being more skilled than other newly qualified paramedics .... I think the question is more about those guys without previous experience and without completing a drivers course, should they receive training before being aloud to respond or be in control of a vehicle ?. The guys that complete their paramedic training and then given the responsibility to drive without the experience and skill. ( also take skill retention in consideration, so its not only newly qualified people) Would you say that a drivers course is beneficial ?

[runswithneedles]

ANd in response to the original question. Tell your medics to stop driving like caca. When they arent running code they need to be driving it like its their old grandmas van.

When they are running code

if they are on highway highway

watch for intersections

step off the gas and gear down if your going into a steep turn rather than using the brake and when your half way through it accelerate through the rest of the turn to help straighten you out

box's are not meant to go over 85 (and thats pushing it) any faster and youll soften the metal in the rear diff and itll start shaving to pieces. (someone did that to medic 16 my ugly adopted stepson of medic 16)

or treat the truck like they treat their vehicle

[eduard]

with all due respect, i think you missing the question?

[Kiwiology]

A few things come to my mind on this issue. I will be brief and give everyone else a chance to ellaborate.

1. Long hours at work. Before I left the streets back in 08 there had been ongoing talk for some time about the possibility of insurance companies either raising their rates or refusing to insure EMS services that stil rotated on 24 hour shifts. Long hours and no sleep can and has been proven to be deadly to the workers and the public.

2. How many other professions do you know of besides EMS and the fire service where an 18-21 year old (depending on insurance policies) jump into an ambulance or firetruck, flip on the lights and sirens and take off down the road after a 1 or 2 day EVOC class? The inexperience of some of the drivers are to my mind yet another cause.

My two biggest recommendations would be to do away with the 24 hours shifts and require someone under tha age of 25 to have not only an EVOC class but several months to a year of documented supervised driving with a senior co worker.

Will these happen anytime soon?? Probably not but that's me on my soapbox for a minute.

This.

In New Zealand our Ambulance Officers are ...

- required to have held a drivers license for three years minimum,

- required to have a clean license i.e. no tickets or points for anything

- required to pass a two day theory and practical driving course,

- required to complete a driving logbook and peer-review to show competence,

- not allowed to work for more than 5.5 hours without a 30 minute break,

- not allowed to work for more than 13 hours in any 24 hour period,

- required to have a 10 hour break between shifts

nb "work" does not mean "driving" work means being AT WORK e.g. if you start at 0600 come 1130 you MUST have a 30 minute break

These are the same rules as truck drivers

[Aprz]

In the area I live in, the 911 units record and rate how you drive. For a brief overview of it, go to http://paramedicsplu..._Final_2012.pdf and scroll down to page 7 on "Road Safety Demystified!" I have been unsuccessful with getting hired on with that company, but I hope to someday.

At the current IFT and previous IFT company I worked for, they have GPS units on the units so dispatchers are able to see how fast you are driving, whether you are going CODE 3 or not, and your location. I am unsure of the other information it provides. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like they actually watch it too much or care. At my previous IFT company, I feel like they encouraged speeding. A dispatcher once joked with somebody that they were driving like a grandma when they were driving 10 mph over the speed limit.

My partner from the previous IFT company used to speed all the time and he would complain about how slow I drove. He asked me "What if you were driving CODE 3?" I told him I'd drive 10 mph over the speed limit or slower if I felt 10 mph over wasn't safe. He then proceeded with "But the person in the back is dying. Wouldn't you drive faster for them?" I told him no. He asked "What if the paramedic told you to drive faster?" I told him nope, wouldn't drive faster. One time returning from a call and on our way back to base to clock out, he was telling me to drive faster because he needed to be somewhere quick afterwards. I continued driving the speed limit. Unfortunately in my area, I think people think it's acceptable to speed even if they are in an ambulance not going CODE.

The only good thing they had at my previous IFT company to prevent speeding was some sort of mechanism that prevented us from driving >82 mph. Unfortunately it was also used as a method to speed on long distance transports people would regularly just press all the way down on the pedal and that was it.

I'd like to say that age does contribute, I do believe a lot of younger people like to driver faster and feel more immortal. I'm not saying all, but I do believe a lot do. I really like what Paramedic Plus did and I think that's a really good idea. I like the GPS idea too, but it needs to be monitored better and enforced. Driving with a senior could be good, but they could be like people at my previous company who I felt encouraged speeding instead (my partner had many years on top of me, my FTO also felt I drove slow and told me to speed it up, and I've worked with supervisors/other employees who had just press their foot all the way down on the gas pedal for those long distance transports... we certainly weren't told by the company that the limit was 82 mph/we found out emperically).

To answer the question, I think the ones in my areas aren't very skilled at all. A lot of IFT companies don't even offer EVOC or limit the number of who take it, FTO training is minimal at those companies too, employees (including supervisors, management, dispatcher) seem to accept speeding as something okay, police/high patrol doesn't seem to pull us over, I think it all adds up to no, EMTs/Paramedics are not very good drivers.

I don't mean to hate on the guy who has two accidents on his records and I am probably setting myself up/jinxing myself (karma will get me), but don't you think two accidents in a couple of years is a sign of poor defensive driving? You don't just need to be good at not causing an accident, but also preventing/dodging them. It probably can't always be prevented, but I think two is either pretty unlucky in what I assume is less than a couple of years apart (like 1 or 2 years) or not defensive driving.

I was in the same boat as you. Wouldn't get hired because of my age. The standard here is 21 or older cause of insurance. Recently a company moved in that hires them 18 or older, it's the first time I've seen it. Some places did hire 18 or older, but it was hard, and they teched only. This company new to this area hires them and allows them to drive which is amazing to me.

Edit: Hi Kiwi!

Edited May 3, 2012 by Aprz

[Bieber]

Like many things in EMS, I think that the flaw here has a lot to do with our over the top, adrenaline-fueled, chaotic response to the very emergencies we're supposed to be bringing order to. Really, there's no need to drive like a bat out of hell. There's a very small number of conditions that are time sensitive, and only one that I can think of where that extra minute saved literally makes all the difference (cardiac arrest).

We need to slow down, take our time, get to our patients safely and efficiently. And while we're at it, once we get there, we need to again take our time, provide what treatments we can in a meticulous, competent and thorough manner. I've never heard of high stress situations enhancing a person's concentration; all we do by working ourselves up is produce sloppy results.

Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.

[emtdennis]

We drive in two "states" hot and cold.

Cold = you are driving as though you are in you POV. Obey signs, stoplights and general rules of the road.

Hot = you use what is known as "due regard". You do not blow a stop sign, light or road directives. but safely get the patient to the hospital.

We use EVOC training and CEVOC training

There are GPS's in our rigs, i have no problem with this. Our chief takes it very serious.

Before you can drive a rig, you must take training and drive under the watchful eyes of some of our experienced people.

Must be over 21

JMHO!