How skilled are Paramedics when it comes to response driving ?

[Bieber]

Myself and about ten other new orientees divided up about four hours of time and two ambulances between the lot of us to drive around a big parking lot as our drivers training. And I had to give them a copy of my license.

We've changed our hiring process a lot since then, and we're continuing to change it with the implementation of our FTO program. But I was honestly given very little service-specific training and direction before I was put out on the streets to work with medics who more often than not either complained that I wasn't going fast enough or yelled at me to slow down, regardless of my comfort level. Infrequently I got constructive criticism and advice, but most of the time it was my partners being frustrated with the new guy. Once I went full time and got a regular partner, things got better.

Do I feel like I was ready to begin operating the largest vehicle I've ever driven before I started to work on one regularly? No. There were entire shifts where I took all of the calls (17, one night) just to avoid having to drive that beast. Even now I'm still nervous about driving it in the snow and ice. Our training process has come leaps and bounds since then, but I can't say that I felt prepared for the job when I started working.

[BushyFromOz]

Statistics show that the overwhelming majorities of MCA's involving ambulances in our service where in reverse and in carparks.

Driver training consisting of 2 or 3 days of learning how to drive the vehicles under road conditions, identifing blind spots and maneuvering in tight saces is perfromed as well as some theory work on legislation in regards to driving emergency vehicles in our state. They guys are given a book with all the relevent documentation, but is is not designed for emergency responses.

Our staff then hit the road, with the caveat that they are not to drive L&S, come back for further training in legal side of things, concepts of foreward scanning, driving to conditions and service policy regarding emergency responses. They are then allowed to drive signal 1's after having done 3 in the presence of our driving standards facilitators.

The real advantage here is twofold. Carpark fender benders and bent rear bumper bars are minimised and after 6 months of working on the road the novelty and excitement of sirens is wearing off before they actually sart using them.

[eduard]

Would it then be safe to say that many "Paramedic" response motor vehicle accidents happen due to inexperience, skill retention in the case of paramedics not working operational for a period of time. Should formal driver training not be included in the curriculum of paramedic courses ??

[BushyFromOz]

Would it then be safe to say that many "Paramedic" response motor vehicle accidents happen due to inexperience, skill retention in the case of paramedics not working operational for a period of time. Should formal driver training not be included in the curriculum of paramedic courses ??

I dont think formal driver training should form any part of formal Paramedic Education, it should be training that is mandatory, but outside of the academic process of gaining your qualification or however your country/jursidiction operates.

I think too that services need to identify the types of accidents occurring and revolve the driver training accordingly, in our case its not the lights and sirens jobs that are over represented, it is low speed while reversing.

In fact, there was some discussion here not long ago about the danger of lights and sirens responses. We travel in excess of 10 million kilometers a year in my service and the fact is that despite the "danger" of emergency responses, there is actually no data that supports this as being higher risk of crashes as the rate of serious accidents for ambulance is less than the public.

Edited May 4, 2012 by BushyFromOz

[island emt]

Sorry for the Hijack last night eduard:

Just needed to put a kid back in line:

there is a lack of suitable formal motor vehicle operators training in most areas.

Many of these kids today come out of school and have never driven anything bigger than a honda civic or a toyota toaster oven.

They have no idea about the forces exerted on a 14,000 lb vehicle during road operations.. In a former job we would spend several weeks training new drivers on skid pad and maneuvering techniques.

[Kiwiology]

i think in US we could look at the following

- your ambulances are much larger and heavier (14,000lb (7,000kg) US ambo vs a 2,500kg (~5,000lb) AU/NZ/UK vanbusprinter)

- most states have minimal driver licensing reqs (theory test, practical, warm pulse and a working eye)

- most ambulance services have bare-bones driver education (or none whatsoever)

- no regulations re fatigue or rest breaks ? driver fatigue

- a much higher proportion of lights and sirens responses

- there is no real restrictions on who can drive e.g. an 18 year old with a car license can drive if the boss says OK

- no state requires any commercial or professional grade license (and associated tests) to drive an ambulance

And the biggie is having spent four of last six years in US I can say first-hand that driver behaviour generally is much looser and people don't seem to take safety as seriously. I've had people call me "weird" or a "safety Nazi" for driving at the speed limit (mostly) and not texting or talking on my phone, always wearing my seat belt etc and also for not riding with people who I knew were technologically challenged and couldn't put their phone down while they drove.

Driving is the most dangerous part of being an ambo and you should bloody treat it as such.

Once again, US seems to fall to bottom of heap, breaks my heart

Edited May 4, 2012 by Kiwiology

[emtdennis]

Let's get the internationaloscope out

Australia - class LR required

UK and Europe - Class C1 required

Canada - Class 4 (in Ontario Class F) required

South Africa - Code 10 required

Each of these are a higher standard than a regular car license, a commercial class medical exam and a theory and driving test

Each of these jurisdictions (not sure about SA) also has very strict rules about rest breaks and limits of driving

Once again US falls to bottom, breaks my heart

I don't know about the US faling to bottom. I think it is the locale that you are driving in. A major amount of areas have very strict standards, while of course others have as one poster described "a pulse and one eye" (hope I got that right). I personally prefer the stricter standards. It is the loose areas that make it bad for the rest of us. In our dept, a driver loses driving priviledges for screwing up. The residents in our area think nothing of calling the chief if a driver screws up.

[Kiwiology]

The point I was making is that unlike other industralised nations the US has no rules regarding fatigue, rest breaks or duty hour limitations for ambos; some individual companies might but in other nations the ambulance service is regulated the same as other commercial drivers.

Consider also no state requires a commercial grade of driver license and the tougher licensing and testing requirements that come with it; California requires a knowledge test and a DL51 CDL medical which is good but it's still not requiring a commercial drivers license

Driver education is also pretty poor (usually a one or two day class if that) and then you're let loose; again just because a couple ompanies might require more is not good enough.

In my time in the US it was very much evident that driver training and standards were extremely lacking and that many people liked to drive lights and sirens because they could and thought it was a good thing to do i.e. it was fun or some sort of novelty. Generally there seemed to be a societal acceptance of driving safety as not being that important e.g. talking on your phone and driving was something you just did and not something to be worried about.

Sure I accept I am painting with a bit of a broad brush but again, like in many things, the US seems to have the lowest standard and you know what I've never heard from an ambo here that "I know it's only a matter of time before I am in another ambulance wreck"; I've heard that in US

Makes me sad

Edited May 4, 2012 by Kiwiology

[Asysin2leads]

ITs funny that while EMS in the US is still under the Department of Transportation, the Department of Transportation says little to nothing about what is required for transportation.

[Bieber]

Life really is chock full of irony, Asys.

Kiwi, you know, I think you're on base with regards to the US having some of the lowest drivers and safety standards (in practice if not on paper). You still have ambulance envy hardcore, but I'd be willing to bet that a smaller percentage of Kiwimedics are killed each year than red white and blue medics are.