Bystanders with Cell phones and taking pictures

[DwayneEMTP]

I think that maybe where we look at this so differently is that you seem to feel the man filming has been terribly harmed by having been subjected to losing that right, lawfully or not, just for 'taking a picture.'

I see that the picture that he's taking can cause massive damage to someone that has no ability to prevent it from being taken. He's going to suffer a momentary inconvenience where she will have personal images possibly posted on the net, altered to suit the wants of whatever pervert chooses to Photoshop them, for, well, more than likely at least as long as she's alive.

He has the ability to avoid his discomfort, she does not. In my mind that makes her the victim and her he the victimizer, which makes the issue much clearer for me.

Maybe we've seen that differently and that's why your arguments about loud radios and racist protests don't really resonate with me. Neither causes permanent damage nor am I unable to leave either if I feel challenged by their message or volume. Not so the case of the patient.

I'm guessing that by being outraged over the famous image of the young girl that's burned implies that I should be angry with the photographer for shooting pictures instead of helping her? I believe that I'd have made a different decision. But allowing her to suffer further (assuming he had the tools and/or knowledge to help her if he'd chosen to) to make sure that she does not suffer for nothing, that perhaps others will not suffer because her suffering was placed squarely into the world's view is in no way comparable to the issues in our discussion. There is no comparison to his choosing to record horrors without changing them with his actions and choosing to allow horrors so that one can stay safely uninvolved. But you already knew that, as I believe you know this to be a Straw Man argument.

Maybe Chris is right, if you interpret Gandhi's message to state that everyone should simply get 'road ragey' then perhaps we are so far apart on this issue that we can't really learn from each others opinions after all.

I'll close by saying first, that I certainly see your point, that my argument doesn't hold up logically if held to the OP only, and perhaps not when extrapolated from that to something less easily managed with sheets. Though given my life experiences, in the U.S. and other parts of the world, I've not been convinced of the usefulness of your point of view except where clear, instantly enforceable laws for every distateful situation exist. I've never been to such a place.

Second, I hope that you'll see no disrespect in my not quoting/commenting on your posts further. It's an issue of time, not interest. I'm grateful for you taking the time to participate in this discussion.

[akflightmedic]

And while this topic is winding down, I would like to offer a tangent.

This discussion has been about "that woman" being exposed...subjected to film against her will and possibly 'internetly' violated later on. I pose this question to all of you....how many of you will go out of your way to cover a woman but do not give a second thought to ripping a shirt off of a man?

I have no factual data, only what I have seen, but there is this huge double standard. How many have asked a man to unbutton his shirt or remove his shirt in a semi public place to do an ECG or to perform a more thorough exam?

Admit it or not, every person has some body image issue, be it minor or major...yet men seem to never be included in that demographic for consideration when it comes to clothes removal. I have even seen a male patient "bullied or peer pressured" into removing his shirt when it was obvious he was uncomfortable doing so. It happens...and before you say you would never, think long and hard over every past patient you have treated either personally or as a second/third crew member and see if it has not been done at least once.

I do not understand why breasts suddenly make it this magical moment, much like I cannot understand why the medically correct word vagina is offensive especially to our educated, elected leaders...but the double standards piss me off.

So, what say you?

[systemet]

. I have even seen a male patient "bullied or peer pressured" into removing his shirt when it was obvious he was uncomfortable doing so. It happens...and before you say you would never, think long and hard over every past patient you have treated either personally or as a second/third crew member and see if it has not been done at least once.

I've done it. I had a guy in the back of the ambulance with multiple torso stab wounds, who was refusing to take off his T-shirt in front of my female partner. i was getting quite frustrated, and angry with him, until I asked him what the issue was, and why he wouldn't take it off.

Gynecomastia as a side effects of the antipsychotics he'd been taking. He didn't want my partner to see it. So we agreed she'd go up front, I'd uncover him quickly, and put a gown over the top. The gynecomastia seemed minor to me -- I don't think I would have really noticed it if he hadn't mentioned it. He just looked kind of obese to me. But there I was, getting all irritated with the world in general, because my stabbing patient wouldn't play nice, and it turned out he had a decent, understandable reason.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't maybe have just accepted that my partner was a health professional, and not made a big deal about it. But I sure made an easy situation difficult for myself until I stopped to wonder where he was coming from. I felt pretty stupid afterwards.