N.J. Supreme Court Rules Couple Can Sue Rescue Squad

[DwayneEMTP]

I do agree that if they had no right to pronounce, then sitting on site is probably going to look bad.

But then again with one basic in back and one driving you're not going to do much for rescus anyway. But it would probably have been better to do nothing enroute than do nothing on scene.

Also, as 1040 said, as basics they really didn't have the information necessary to decide to sit on scene...

[Kiwiology]

As a former legal resident of the State of New York I take my responsibility to hate on Jersey very, very seriously especially when it comes to EMS, for fuck sake a first world nation relying on "First Aid Squads" fucking clown car style ambulance rocking up with four or five people, one of whom is actually an EMT and some other muppets who are drivers, crew chiefs and trainees and shit bloody hell

[Chief1C]

As a former legal resident of the State of New York I take my responsibility to hate on Jersey very, very seriously especially when it comes to EMS, for fuck sake a first world nation relying on "First Aid Squads" fucking clown car style ambulance rocking up with four or five people, one of whom is actually an EMT and some other muppets who are drivers, crew chiefs and trainees and shit bloody hell

Clean that up a bit? Your warped view from a questionable past. Judge the book by its cover, is it okay to turn the tables? Are you a muppet, or a trainee?

[ERDoc]

I realize that this story is more about whether the family can sue or not, but I think our discussion is moving more towards the care that was rendered. I just read through the court documents provided by eb1040. It makes for some interesting reading. It did leave me with a few questions:

1. Did Medic 9 ever make it to the scene? There are some places that say yes and some that say no. If they did, why didn't they transport and provide care since they would have been the higher level of care?

2. The summary states that the ambulance arrived on scene at 5:16. Is this the time they arrived on scene or the time they truly made contact with the pt? With the call being a shooting, did they post around the corner waiting for police to clear the scene? If so, is 5:16 the time they posted or the time they actually made it to the pt?

3. The plaintiffs expert witness is a medical examiner. Is this person truly an "expert" in the field of emergency medicine, prehospital care or trauma care? Did the hospital that was "only minutes away," actually have a surgical team ready to take this person to the OR at 5am or would they have needed to be called in from home? Would they even be able to handle the trauma since they are not a trauma center. I can tell you that from working in a community hospital, if a trauma pt codes, I am not cracking their chest. Even if I could get ROSC, there is no way that pt is going to make into an OR, much less out of it. At a trauma center, it is a different story but the chances of survival are slim to none. I'm also curious how the good doctor came to the conclusion that the patient would have had a 20-30% chance of survival with a more rapid transport. That is being overly generous even under idea conditions at a trauma center. I judt did a little research on this hospital. Muhlenberg is a satellite ER and is not a fully functioning hospital. From their website (http://jfkmc.org/sat...ency-department):

What is a Satellite Emergency Department?

A satellite emergency department is distinct from an inpatient, traditional hospital. With the exception of trauma, it has the same capabilities as conventional Emergency Departments, 24 hours per day, seven days per week – with all the necessary personnel and emergency equipment. By state regulations, a satellite emergency department must be part of a system with a nearby acute-care hospital such as JFK Medical Center.

So there is nothing that would have changed the outcome. There is no surgical service at the hospital and they specifically state they cannot deal with trauma. This is just another family looking for their lottery ticket.

Edited July 20, 2012 by ERDoc

[eb1040]

So there is nothing that would have changed the outcome. There is no surgical service at the hospital and they specifically state they cannot deal with trauma. This is just another family looking for their lottery ticket.

In a little fairness to the family's side also, we don't know what was said to them at the hospital. I'm sure you have had some Physicians, maybe surgeons, with huge egos say "if I could have gotten them sooner". Or even something the ER doctor or one of the staff members might have said could have stuck in the family's mind. What if a Paramedic from another unit happened to say something like Kiwiology's post within earshot of the family? I have had to catch myself from saying something negative about a hospital, fire department or ambulance service also when a family member says how great they are for whatever reason. I have actually heard some EMTs and Paramedics openly say very negative things about an ambulance company or hospital to a patient or their family It doesn't take much especially when a family wants to find other answers to why other than asking themselves if they could have prevented something in the first place. When working in the hospital or on CCT we are told over and over to be very careful with out choice of words around any layperson who might repeat what we say to the family. A family might get caught up in their grief and hear things from everyone who has an opinion about what should have happened which may be from the well meaning EMT neighbor which then one decision after another lands them with a courts care with an attorney from an info commercial.

[ERDoc]

eb, you are too nice of a person (that is not a bad thing). I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't see it in this case.

[Bieber]

Dead Patient + CPR + No Response = Dead Patient

Dead Patient + CPR + No Response + Transport = Dead Patient

[ERDoc]

Bieber, if only it were that simple. This is NJ EMS we are talking about.

I also question the "active blood pressure" obtained by the ER. I don't think I would consider something like 60/40 very active or very useful. As for the EKG activity, it was probably PEA. You know, that rhythm that goes with one of the 5 Hs and 5 Ts (hypovolemia). This guy probably dumped most of his blood volume from his torn aorta into his chest in the first few minutes.

[Bieber]

Bieber, if only it were that simple. This is NJ EMS we are talking about.

Touche! Still, it's very disheartening to see the squad being sued, even if NJ EMS is just awful from everything I've heard...

[ERDoc]

I need to correct my previous post. The shooting occured in 2004, at which time the hospital was still a fully functioning 355 bed hospital.