Rural Fire department volunteer or paid

[Dustdevil]

I'm a career medic, but I volunteer on the side, for my hometown rescue squad, a couple of times a month. I do this because right now, they're a volunteer organization. When they eventually become a career or even part-paid agency, I'll more than likely cease these activities.

That reminds me of that poster that says, "Notice from management: The beatings will continue until morale improves." It's absurd.

Apparently you slept through both bible class and mathematics. Do the math.

If you and all your whacker friends cease your volunteering today, they will become a paid agency tomorrow.

But plus 5 for deducting for the double post. :wink:

[n5iln]

There are too many barriers to volunteer fire services going away. The first, and foremost, is the "free lunch" mentality of those receiving those volunteer fire services'...well...services.

Let's look at the options here.

Go to local-government-supported paid services? My department serves a 25-square-mile area, 85% of which is rural/agricultural in makeup, and the remainder is small-town. The landowners already scream like bane-sidhes whenever taxes go up for such trivialities as highway maintenance...what will they do with the substantial tax increase needed to fund a full-time fire department?

How about a privately-owned pay-for-play fire service, one where the department gets paid by the property owner for services rendered? That's already being proven as a Very Bad Idea in several areas; my employer was one of the first companies to attempt that model, and they're fighting tooth and nail to divest themselves of those failed experiments.

What's left? Nothing I can think of...except volunteer services.

There's a reason something like 46% of the United States receives fire protection and suppression from volunteers.

[JakeEMTP]

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There's a reason something like 46% of the United States receives fire protection and suppression from volunteers.

Yes there is. People continue to want to do it for free.

[medic001918]

There are too many barriers to volunteer fire services going away. The first, and foremost, is the "free lunch" mentality of those receiving those volunteer fire services'...well...services.

Let's look at the options here.

Go to local-government-supported paid services? My department serves a 25-square-mile area, 85% of which is rural/agricultural in makeup, and the remainder is small-town. The landowners already scream like bane-sidhes whenever taxes go up for such trivialities as highway maintenance...what will they do with the substantial tax increase needed to fund a full-time fire department?

How about a privately-owned pay-for-play fire service, one where the department gets paid by the property owner for services rendered? That's already being proven as a Very Bad Idea in several areas; my employer was one of the first companies to attempt that model, and they're fighting tooth and nail to divest themselves of those failed experiments.

What's left? Nothing I can think of...except volunteer services.

There's a reason something like 46% of the United States receives fire protection and suppression from volunteers.

Oh how nothing could be farther from the truth. One big reason that service's continue to be rendered by volunteer's is because volunteer's continue to give the service's for free. The expression "why pay for the cow when I can get the milk for free" comes to mind. Nobody is in a position to have to pay for services when they're being provided happily at no expense.

The people of your community get upset at any kind of tax increase, and so far it's working to keep things status quo. Get rid of the volunteer services and then you'll see them in a position where they have to put into place some form of system. I'll be they don't go long without services. It might last until the first important town member needs them and can't get them quickly. Then things would certainly change.

You said it's a small community, so my guess is that there are other small communities in your area facing the very same problem. Rather then having each town figure out to provide for their low call volume town, they group together with other towns and make a regional or county response. This lessons the burden to any one town, while still ensuring a paid response in a timely manner. With proper management, this is possible without question. I'm sure you could all pull your call histories and see where your busy spots are and figure out strategic location of units. This makes the financial burden spead among more tax payers, allowing each to pay less.

Also, I'd be curious about what their homeowner's insurance rates would be with paid services. I know that when I bought my house and got the insurance for it, they were very interested in knowing how far I was from the nearest "manned fire station" and the nearest "functional fire hydrant." I was actually given a cheaper rate based on my proximity to both of those. So while their tax payment goes up, their insurance payments could go down helping to offset the cost of the paid services.

To get paid services in any area when they are switched from volunteer is a matter of sales. You have to sell the townspeople on why it's a better idea. And that comes from being able to educate others about the benefits of why having a paid department is worth the extra money. When you're looking at insurnace for your property, self, etc; do you not shop to see what the benefits are of different providers? And make your decision not just based on the bottom line per month, but the services avialable to you? The same methodology can apply here. You have to sell the customer on why it's a good idea. It's not an easy task to accomplish, but not impossible. And if you all stopped volunteering, they really would have no option.

Shane

NREMT-P

[n5iln]

Yes there is. People continue to want to do it for free.

And this is a bad thing...how?

[spenac]

In my opinion, volly fire is way different than volly EMS. For example in my community fire may roll out 2 times a month while ambulance rolls 2 times a day. With the number of calls and time required for each transport people understand need for paid EMS. How can you convince the public they need a full time crew, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day for fire? To properly staff would require many more people than are required to staff 1 ambulance. The money would be better spent to fund a second ambulance. Maybe offer fire reimbursement for each response. As far as taxes being offset by better insurance rates maybe but still a waste of funds.

[Just Plain Ruff]

spenac I agree.

the city I used to work in had a full time paid fire department staff of about 5. All others were volunteers.

they had enough staff to drive the trucks to the fire or get a full crew together in station to respond to a MVC call and then the volunteers would be called in to cover the station in case of a "fire" call or another mvc.

Dual volly/paid fire is not a bad thing imho

dual volly/paid ems might not be bad either. Paid crews to cover first line and volly backups to cover the odd 2nd ambulance call. Which happened about 3 times a month.

[spenac]

spenac I agree.

Dual volly/paid fire is not a bad thing imho

Gasp, choke, he agrees with me. And I agree with him that for a start in small towns a combo may be the way to go.

[Dustdevil]

I would also agree that fire and EMS are very different animals with quite different considerations. And, because of that, I would disagree with the premise that any sort of combo would be a good way to go in any but the very rarest of circumstances.

But the fact remains constant for both, that if there were nobody willing to do it for free, there would be paid, professional services springing up like crabgrass all over the country overnight. I really can't believe that anybody is stupid enough to believe otherwise. I get a kick out of all these wankers who say, "If I don't do it, they won't have service." Puhleeze... get over yourself. The truth is, if you don't do it, some other wanker will do it. There is a reason that Gall's is a billion dollar corporation; America is overrun with people who want to be wankers.

Amazingly enough, in rural America (unlike urban America), it can be a lot easier to sell EMS than fire protection to the public. Think about it. As already stated here, there are a great many rural communities served by volly FDs, but paid EMS. Tell me how often you have seen a community with a paid FD, but volly EMS? Not too often! Most people go through their entire life without ever having their house burn. Most go through their entire life withou ever even having a friend or relative whose house burned. But everybody, sooner or later, has a medical problem, and knows plenty of friends and relatives that do too. Kinda shows you how misplaced our urban priorities seem to be!

[JakeEMTP]

And this is a bad thing...how?

Please take the time to read this tread completely. I'd hate to waste bandwidth reiterating.