Patient Refusal and Law Enforcement

[Richard B the EMT]

1) Per MY local protocols, taking an unwilling person to the hospital without LEOs placing that person under protective custody constitutes kidnapping, possibly assault and battery.

2) Medically, you run the scene, the LEO runs legal.

3) In MY opinion, both the LEO and Supervisor are wrong

4) You have the Right to remain Silent. You have the Right to have an Attorney.

5) Exercise both rights as mentioned in item 4.

Monitors: PLEASE LOCK!

Edited August 5, 2012 by Richard B the EMT

[DwayneEMTP]

I think that this has been a productive thread. I can see no reason to lock it. He's chosen to post, I can't see anywhere where he's hurt himself in his statements, nor where the statements that follow have hurt him either.

The post sounds to me like it was created by an adult and out of respect for that I'll consider locking his thread should he choose to have it locked. I won't limit his right to participate based on what others think is best for him. I find him to be alert and oriented and choose not to treat his threat without his consent....so to speak.

Because some of you have given what you consider to be the best and ultimate piece of advice and can't imagine better advice being provided doesn't mean that there is not other, equally or more valuable advice available.

Dwayne

[Just Plain Ruff]

Fair enough Dwayne. But I still think that prior to his returning to this thread he should seek advice of counsel and then and only then should he return if his attorney says to do so.

Now if he isnt going to sue then he can do what he wants on this thread.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[paramedicmike]

If, after consultations with his lawyer, he decides he wants to pursue legal action against his current employer (and the police if it's determined to be an unlawful arrest) he should find a new job first then go back and sue the then former employer.

It's awfully hard to get a job when you have to explain that you're in the process of suing your now former employer. Potential employers tend to get a little skittish about that.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Yep try explaining that to a potential employer. No matter how justified you were in suing, no employer is going to touch you with a ten foot iv needle ic they know you are currently suing another ambulance service even if its their most hated competetor.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[twist27896]

Well everything somehow worked out. I spoke with someone high up in the public safety administrative ladder and he took care of it. Apparently I wasn't officially arrested but was being investigated by the officer and a charge hadn't been made yet (although that isn't what the officer told me when the incident happened). I believe the officer is in some trouble internally (not legally though) for the way he spoke to our crew as well. It is kind of scary to think that our public safety coworkers in blue would treat us this way when we should be working cooperatively. Interestingly he didn't seem to have as big a problem when my supervisor obtained the refusal...

[DwayneEMTP]

Were you restrained and transported?

If so, if this were me, this story would only just be beginning...

[twist27896]

Fortunately no, the officer was busy with the girl and just took my license and information and interrogated me. My supervisor arrived very quickly and separated our crew and the officer. I guess I should have known that since I wasn't read any Miranda rights or taken to jail I probably wasn't really arrested. I was honestly too scared/confused to think that deep though. The officer did tell me that he was going to arrest me but I guess never got around to it, my supervisor talked him out of it, or didn't really intend to in the first place. The officer is apparently in some trouble for some of the comments/threats he made and refusing to let me obtain the patient's signature on a refusal form and refusing to talk to us upon trying to get him sign as a witness. He is facing a complaint of interfering with a EMS Technician. I kind of hope it goes through, but I do believe that many LEOs are unfamiliar with EMS laws : After all, they can take someone forcefully so I could see how they could assume we can too. I don't want to make too big a stir since it could potentially endanger my job and definitely relations with the police in our very small county. I am sure I will need their help sometime soon.

Edited August 6, 2012 by twist27896