help with grief managment

[wcherron]

the rescue squad i work for and a mvc roll over a few nights ago there were 9 patients all together 1 one of them being a 7 year old little girl who was killed during the accident some of the crews were fortunate enough not to see the your girl pinned under the vehicle but there was 3 of us who where right there with the young girl while trying to extracate the othe people from the vehicle i really do understand that this is something that is going to happen as long as we are in this business but im hoping someone can give some advise on how to help the othe 2 deal with the situation and advice would help thanks

[mobey]

Truely sorry Idon't have time to offer advice.

But start here:

http://www.emtcity.com/topic/21642-longevity-in-ems/

[Chief1C]

Talk it out. Sit down, visualize it in your mind, b/c that stuff doesn't go away. Describe it in great detail if you have to, just to get it out.. Like that movie line, an emotional enema. Just with those two. Nobody else has to hear it. Speak to a grief or critical incident stress councilor. If you have faith in god, which I do not, let me just put that out there. Consider a member of the local clergy, that's a big thing in rural areas. Don't hold it in, EMS loses good people because they don't have anyone there to stand by their side, or if need be give a shoulder to cry on. Everyone had a breaking point, and sometimes you don't even know what your own is, till you take a step back and ask yourself how you dealt with that. I think its okay, and healthy to either cry it out, or ask someone to talk. We need to stand together, and whether I do it for someone under my command, or someone five hundred miles away, its the right thing to do.

Now I couldn't find much for West Virginia.. The state's EMS page kinda sucks. Just sayin'

But I'll PM you with an area contact from the International Critical Incident Stress Foundation.

In the future, if you need to get someone there - quickly - to speak to someone; you can call this number: 410-313-2473. That applies to any area of the US, and they'll get someone to you. In fact, there is probably a team in West Virginia, but the EMS website just doesn't have any of that info.

Hope that helps.

Edited August 14, 2012 by 1 C

[paramedicmike]

Professional counseling by a licensed mental healthcare provider.

Yes, nobody likes to think about it or admit they're seeing a therapist/psychologist because there's still a nasty, unwarranted stigma associated with mental health issues. Going to anyone other than someone who's been educated to deal with these issues is potentiall more harmful than helpful.

[island emt]

Do not think less of yourself for seeking help.

Too many folks try to be MACHO and end up having long term damage to their psyche.

Get as much professional help as is needed to get through this. It's ok to feel sad and cry over the senseless death of a child.

Don't hold those emotions in.

[emtdennis]

I don't know where you are located, but some agencies have counseling available for the entire team or an individual. I am sure other team members feel the way you do, so it will also benefit them, that you all go together.

As said earlier, do not hold it in, cuz it may "eat you up" later or even affect how you handle future calls.

I must admit, children are my "weak point" when it come to seeing them get seriously hurt in an accident or worse.

Please follow-up and talk it out with a pro.

[DwayneEMTP]

Yeah, man, sounds like a nasty call.

Getting professional help for yourself or your coworkers is certainly the right thing to do. But don't confuse CISD with professional help. No only can you see if you look at the way that they provide 'counselors' that it's nonsense, but the scientific data is clear that it shouldn't be considered useful for nearly any situation.

Before contacting anything CISD related, be sure to look at the facts.

Good luck man...

[wcherron]

thank you everyone for the advice and thamk everyone for caring just an update i had been calling the hospital the [patient] that was ejected is doing much better i have kinda obsessing over finding out how he is doing i called and spoke to his nurse earlier and she put me on the phone with his mother he is out of surgery for a (edited) but there is no brain damnage like we thought he had in the field so if everyone one could please say a prayer for [my patient] and his family (edited) [for] a good recovery for him and again thank you all for everything...

Edited by Dwayne to help maintain patient confidentiality. No offense intended with the edit my friend, but as C 1 said, I was afraid that you'd added enough patient information to give you troubles should someone decide to go down that path.

Awesome questions. It's good to have you here.

[Just Plain Ruff]

thank you everyone for the advice and thamk everyone for caring just an update i had been calling the hospital the [patient] that was ejected is doing much better i have kinda obsessing over finding out how he is doing i called and spoke to his nurse earlier and she put me on the phone with his mother he is out of surgery for a (edited) but there is no brain damnage like we thought he had in the field so if everyone one could please say a prayer for [my patient] and his family (edited) [for] a good recovery for him and again thank you all for everything...

Edited by Dwayne to help maintain patient confidentiality.

Ok, this post is disturbing in one aspect. Your mentioning obsessing on finding out how he's doing.

It's good that you care and maybe your use of obsessing was a little over the top. But if it wasn't then you need to step back and think.

How far did you go to find out where he was and get to talk to his mother. What means did you go through to get to the point of talking to the family.

I'm not normally the harsh one on these boards but obsessing (you mentioned it) can be a nasty trait. If you just called the nursing station and talked to the nurse and she put you on the phone with the mom then that is one thing but if you went any further than that and did anything to misrepresent yourself to the nurse or the family then there is a HUGE HUGE PROBLEM and you need to STOP RIGHT NOW chill out and back down.

So that being said, what I think you may have meant is that you were really wanting to know how the young man was doing so you called the hospital, told them who you were and they connected you to the nurses station and the nurse connected you to the patients mom. And you had a good chat. That is how I hope it went. All is good in mudville.

What you need to do now is, you now have a good grasp on how your patient is doing, you need to move on and continue working and taking care of the patients that will continue to come along.

You also need to follow the stellar advice of your fellow EMT citizens and get the professional help because this call will never go away, it will fade off into the distance but only with help. You never forget the first call where a child is your first fatality. Trust me, I can see my first child fatality, I can also see my 2nd and third and 5th and 20th. I cannot give you the particulars but I can if I am given enough time to remember. But I've asked for professional help more than once, or twice.

Since this is your first of this type of call, the professional help you get will help you set the stage for future incidents like this and can help you deal with them in a productive way instead of obsessing over things.

my advice, get the help you need. Talk it out. It might just take a couple of sessions. It may take a more than a few.

My first day as an emt on my own off of orientation started out with a pedi code(save), 2 transfers, a trauma code(shooting) and 4 other calls and then an adult code. I nearly quit. Our entire system that day was hammered. Did I say I nearly quit?

[Bernhard]

All said is true.

Just to add some general hints about stress recognition: it's absolutely normal that this incident gives you a most bad feeling and it makes you feel sad. It's totally normal to have it affect your sleep and daily thoughts - but only for the first two weeks! Then it should become better, exceptions are some flashbacks especially in similar situations or when driving by that location. If it takes much longer than two weeks or it even gets worse or you get physical phenomenons by those flashbacks (frequently interrupted sleep, raised pulse, short of breath and so on), then get professional help soon.

Until then, what seems to help most in the first hours/days, is to talk about the incident, your actions and the views of others with those who've been with you in a calm setting. If you're more senior, you may remember (and remember others), that the cause of the accident is not your fault and you never had a chance to change something in the fatal outcome, but obviously did help with the other passengers.

It's OK to follow up on patient outcome but don't let it get too personal, try to see it more as a quality control issue.