Duty To Act?

[ERDoc]

But dude, I already installed the lollipops in my grill and wigwags in my lights. I don't think Galls will let me return them.

[mobey]

If you`re working EMS or have specific knowledge that would apply to that situation (proven by a degree or vocational training), you do have the duty to render more care than an untrained bypasser, as an EMS worker.

I don't buy this as fact.

How is a degreed paramedic supposed to render anymore care than a lay-person when he pulls over in his POV wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

No PPE, No equipment = No help from me!

[Richard B the EMT]

Check around the site, here. We've had some interesting discussions on "Legal Duty To Act", versus "Moral Duty To Act". As also indicated in this string, it can vary from city to city, county to county, state to state (provence to provence, for the Canadians) and, indeed, country to country.

[DFIB]

Interesting article. http://www.jems.com/article/news/judge-california-responders-had-no-legal

[ERDoc]

Interesting article. http://www.jems.com/article/news/judge-california-responders-had-no-legal

I disagree with this a little. I think they had a duty to act, but I don't think their duty should require them to purposely put themselves in a dangerous situation without the proper equipment.

[DFIB]

I disagree with this a little. I think they had a duty to act, but I don't think their duty should require them to purposely put themselves in a dangerous situation without the proper equipment.

I am picking up what you are throwing down.

[Bernhard]

Allthough it's an old thread...

I don't buy this as fact.

How is a degreed paramedic supposed to render anymore care than a lay-person when he pulls over in his POV wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

No PPE, No equipment = No help from me!

I have my educated medic brain with me all the times. You don't?

BTW, Vorenus isn't quite right with his description of the situation in Germany. There is a legal duty to act for random bystanders, if they're lay persons or professionally trained. But even if doctor, medic or EMT you are protected under the same conditions as a lay man. There is a bit of a grey zone: if you act totally stupid this may be held against you more than against a lay man, but depends on situation. However I don't know a single case where a bystanding first aider was successfully sued - courts usally respect the intention to help. On the other hand there are a lot of cases against non-helping bystanders (unfortunately mostly dropped because lack of evidence).

So, in Germany, when you recognize someone in an emergency situation, are able to help and not restricted by other important duties (i.e. control of small childs) or the need to endangering yourself (!) you have the duty to act. If layman or professional. No restrictions (as long as in scope of your practise and common sense), at least an emergency call (in europe: 112) should be possible to everyone. In the case of own loss or damage/injury you are covered by public/state insurance (which usually is better than a private one).

BTW, in Germany obtaining a driver's licenses requires a basic first aid course. Plus: every car has to be equipped with a first aid kit and this is controlled, since it is a valid possibility for police to let you open your trunk - I have mine under the driver's seat...

In summary: yes, I would help even with only shorts and t-shirts on (I already did...) - fashion doesn't matter to bleeding.

Does anyone else find it ironic that we are telling the OP not to believe everything he reads on the internet, on an anonymous Internet forum?

Give reliable sources!

My sources: German criminal law §323c, road traffic law §34, road traffic licensing regulations §35h, driver's license regulation §19, public insurance book SGB7 and several comments on those.

[DFIB]

In Mexico people are not required to render first aid and face at least the possibility of legal action if they do. This usually does not happen but is a real possibility.

All persons are required to call for help and not abandon an injured person which seems kinda like they are telling people to say "I can't help you but I am happy to sit here and watch you bleed".

[emtdennis]

Tough question.

We can armchair quarterback this, but I am sure there are things that are not said in this article. person was 100 yards away (300 feet). Was the person standing, How was he displaying violant tendancies. Did they try to talk him out of the water. These are just some of the things plus many other we don't know. Just some thoughts.

Edited February 13, 2013 by emtdennis

[MariB]

In class.were had a lawyer do our lecture on legalities and ethics. In our state, on call, we have duty to act. Off call, we do not.. it becomes a moral duty but not legal duty