Faith and Work

[Rudra33]

So, I just got place in an area that are are mostly Indian Hindus, where there are about 6 or 7 Hindu temples around this area. I was wondering being a Hindu myself, we have strict rules we follow when going into a temple for say no shoes. I am very religious guy, but I know I have a job to do as well. Now, say I have an emergency in a temple, do I take my boots off before or would I get into trouble.

I would really like to know the rules about religious beliefs and working EMS, not personal opinions.

Thank you Rudra.

[ERDoc]

There is no good way to answer your question. The rules are set by the place you live and your company. They would probably be the best place to check. I have my opinion but I will hold it since you have asked not to hear opinions.

[Arctickat]

Why are you asking us? I think that this question would be better put to your religious leaders. With the exception of religious discrimination laws there are no rules for working in EMS and observing the religious beliefs of your client. We do have to respect the treatment decisions of the client which may have implications from religious beliefs. ie no blood for a JW.

I don't know what the term is for the religious leader of a Hindu temple, but since the removal of footwear is related to the religion as a whole and not to specific patients, this person would likely be able to grant you an exception....or not. Go to each temple and ask them for direction. Most, if not all, would consider the welfare of their parishioner, far more important than the condition of the carpet.

As an aside, those of us who are not Hindu would likely have walked in with boots on, blissfully unaware that we'd contravened any religious precedents. Thanks for the info.

[fire911medic]

I think this follows much under the same acknowledgement of any other church situation. I kind of look at it as if I go into a church where everyone is praying around someone having an emergency, if I am an EMS member who believed in bowing my head when I prayed, should I take the time to bow my head first and say a quick prayer, or should I proceed to the patient and care for them first ? In my opinion, the patient comes first. I would and have proceeded in such a manner WITH the utmost respect to the religious institution. I have experienced crisis events in everything from a Catholic church in the middle of communion to a snake handling back woods church (and yes it was a call on a snake bite), in each event I was mindful that I was in a religious facility and to watch my tongue to ensure I didn't say anything to offend the presenting religion, but I would not deviate from my focus on patient care to observe their religious interactions, even if they were my own. I've never had a pastor/priest/minister, etc. call a service and complain about the lack of observance in religious practices - even if they knew the person was of that faith. Nor have I heard of the same disciplining a person while acting in the context of being on duty. However, I am sure if it were a similar situation without the emergency, yes I think they would have something said. And if you were to go in, even in uniform, but without responding to a medical emergency, I would think it only appropriate to observe the ritual of removing your shoes. Or if you choose, view it in a different light - forbid it ever happen, but if the facility was on fire and people inside, do you honestly and with your heart believe they would appreciate the help from the firefighters even though they hadn't removed their shoes (even if one of them was Hindu) or would they want them to keep their distance outside because it wouldn't be safe to encounter a fire without protective gear ?

I honestly believe to do this job well, you do have to be able to separate yourself to a degree. That's not to say, I've not prayed with/for a patient when the situation permitted and was asked to. I'll be the first to say yes I have and even if all it did was keep my patient calm and relaxed on a very long transport, I acted in my patient's best interest. However, on the same, I've never said "just trust (insert religious figure of choice)" even if that was my own belief. I have to say though, if in serious question on it, consult your religious leader of your temple about what his/her feelings are about the situation. If there is a conflict, perhaps have your leader speak with your director to reach a compromise. For example, if at all possible, could the patient be moved to a neutral area where shoes wouldn't need to be removed by you (before you guys jump, yes I know some places only run a two person truck, or patient condition wouldn't permit and then you work with what you've got). But at least, expressing this to your leader (as does this discussion in general with him) would show that you are sensitive to the patient's needs and also your religion. Just remember that other than air goes in and out and blood goes round and round - any variation from which is bad there really aren't any hard and fast rules, especially when it comes to religion. The most common quote is with Jehovah's Witnesses, but even this can get you in trouble as some members of this faith vary on what is acceptable and what isn't. It's up to individual interpretation and what they believe. If in doubt, discuss it with both sides. Best wishes and let us know how it goes.

Edited August 22, 2012 by fire911medic

[Just Plain Ruff]

More than likely the religious place you are going to will tell you their guidelines. They will make their requests to you and it is up to you to follow them. Bear in mind the ramifactions may go far.

you could always ask of the person in charge when you arrive what specific things you need to follow. I mean you are hindu so your arrival at a hindu worship site should prompt you of all people to ask if you need to take your boots off?

But the advice has already been given, go to the worship sites and ask. What do they expect.

But when the patient is critical and you have your job to do, which is to save your patient, I will bet that the religious institution will forgive your indiscretion of leaving your boots on.

Just be respectful, let them know that you know what the guidelines are but let me ask this question

Critical patient, are you really going to unlace your boots to take them off and then put your boots back on when that delays your treatment and transport of the patient? Like it has been said many many times on this forum and else where, God, Allah, Vishnah and countless other god's that have been worshipped and those that will come after these, I'm sure they will understand your indiscretion. (I hope you don't qualify this as a personal opinion)

Edited August 22, 2012 by Captain ToHellWithItAll

[Arctickat]

Just wondering...what is the purpose for removing your boots? Is it that the dirtiness of the world should not be trodden into this house of worship? What I'm getting at is whether or not it would be just as acceptable to wear boot covers when you walk in? I suppose one needs to ask how much time would be lost? My boots zip on..I can take them off in 5 seconds and put them back on in 4, pretty much as quickly as slipping boot covers over top of them.

[DFIB]

So, I just got place in an area that are are mostly Indian Hindus, where there are about 6 or 7 Hindu temples around this area. I was wondering being a Hindu myself, we have strict rules we follow when going into a temple for say no shoes. I am very religious guy, but I know I have a job to do as well. Now, say I have an emergency in a temple, do I take my boots off before or would I get into trouble.

I would really like to know the rules about religious beliefs and working EMS, not personal opinions.

Thank you Rudra.

Hello Rudra,

Thank you for posting a question that is so personal to you. I appreciate you sharing your concerns of what could very well be a contradiction between you religious practice and your professional achievement.

I hope I am not too bold for suggesting, but I think that the real reason for your question is more of an inner conflict that you would have because your job might require you violate the rules you have practiced and I suppose believe in strongly. I also feel for you because of the expectation of the congregants of your temple toward you as a fellow Hindu. I can only imagine the conversation of the self righteous group if you ever had to attend a medical call in your boots.

I am obviously supposing a lot but if I am correct I am sorry I have no answer. Within every faith there are always those that understand the constraints of necessity and others that will criticize them for doing it.

I cannot see any service allowing you to work barefoot because of the liability of injury. I also understand you might be in a tight spot.

You might consider talking to your religious leader about wearing shoe covers if you have to enter the Temple as a viable compromise. (Echoing ArticKat)

I would love to read your thoughts and hear how the situation turns out.

Welcome to EMTCity!

[Happiness]

I totally agree with artic, go and ask the leaders of temples and get their opinion, then talk to your employer and you should be able to come up with some sort of agreement. Personally when I go into someones house (in consideration of what type of call im going into) I will take off my shoes just so Im not dragging in the mud. And of course there are times that I don't but when your talking to your leaders (if they dont accept the shoe coverings) you will have to explain that there are going to be times that it is not acceptable to remove your shoes because the time you take to remove and then put back on may be the difference between life and death for your pt.

It is very hard to be able to accomodate every religion in our profession. We have had JW medics here and I have actually asked one of them what they would do in certain situations. We are required to be children advocates in our jobs and there are times that medics may be called for a JW child and then to find that a parent may not want a critically ill child transported. Depending on the age if that happens we are required to call child services. So with that being said there are those JW's that would rather you do that and then later go and go to court to have the child returned so that their child will get the life saving messures need to save their childs life and save face to their religioun. Not right but effective.

[Chief1C]

I'm sure whatever god you're worshiping will understand if you don't take your boots off, to tend to someone who is having an emergency.

[akflightmedic]

I'm sure whatever god you're worshiping will understand if you don't take your boots off, to tend to someone who is having an emergency.

Especially since that god decided to not personally intervene...or created the situation in the first place...