Searching Psych Patients

[Ace844]

Hi All,

I encountered this situation recently during a shift I worked. It got me to thinking so I figured, I'd post this poll and see what you all thought. So I was working a BLS OT shift doing transfers and we got a call from a hospital based EMH service (located in an ER) to transport a patient to another Local ER for Med clearance, then admission to their psych Rx floor. The partner I was working with claims he had 1 1/2 years exp. (though I had never worked with him before).So we go into the Hosp. get report and go through the paperwork, ensure the sect 12 is valid, etc...

The patient is a 15yo Male who is experiencing SI/ and requesting detox as well. The paperwork reveals that this patient was brought to the EMH in Pd custody and that he had assaulted the EMS crew who had gone to his house to txp, at the request of PD/Family. His Mom, Dad, and girlfriend are with him and will follow us toi the other facility. After gettin through all of the billing etc. I ask the staff whether the patient has been searched for weapons, etc..., and whether there were any issues which we should be aware of??? The staff says that the patient has been cooperative, and searched by their security/police while there and is fine, and that there should be no issues and that restraints wouldn't be needed. SO partner then looks right at me and says in front of the staff, " What did you ask them that for?? We don't search our patient's....!?!??!" We package the patient who is cooperative, I ask him in front of family if he has any weapons, lighter, etc.. or other items on him, he'd like to provide or get rid of now... The staff is sending me incredulous looks along with my partner, the patient says no, the family agrees, and says they will take his belongings and meet us there , and that he has nothing. We package the patient and have an uneventful transport until we reach the next hospital. When we arrive there the patient's family meets us and the patient asks me, "Will they search me again here?" I say, " yes, more than likely they will," He looks right at me then turns to his girlfriend and says, "well then can you hold this stuff for me???!!!" He reaches into his pocket, and pulls out, a knife, a needle, a razor blade, marijuana, and a small "baggie of a white powdery substance." He then tries to give it to her.....WTF?!?!?!...right....Any how, this got me to wondering how many others out there search or have their Psych patient's serched by PD or others prior to transport...??????

Out here,

Ace844

[Dustdevil]

This is a great situation for the education of all those people out there who think they somehow "know" when a scene is safe and when it isn't.

There are no "safe" scenes! And I won't work with anybody who believes there are.

And nobody follows my ambulance anywhere either. Family either goes ahead of me and meets me there, or they get intercepted by police enroute.

What is "SI?"

[Ace844]

This is a great situation for the education of all those people out there who think they somehow "know" when a scene is safe and when it isn't.

There are no "safe" scenes! And I won't work with anybody who believes there are.

And nobody follows my ambulance anywhere either. Family either goes ahead of me and meets me there, or they get intercepted by police enroute.

What is "SI?"

"DD",

Si is Suicidal Ideation. The transport was a non-emergent transfer, so no lights no sirens, and the family ended up leaving just before us and met us at the facility.

Hope this helps,

Ace844

[ccguido]

HI,

I always ask the BLS if they have done a search or witnessed the PD do a search. If the answer is no, I always ask the PD present to do it. I have had them turn up knives, drugs and wads of money rolls... I am not a LEO so I let them do this part of the job. I work in an area where we have PD respond to 99% of all of our jobs....

[Beagle189]

I search them or have PD (if present) search them for the exact reason as you experienced.

[Dustdevil]

The transport was a non-emergent transfer, so no lights no sirens, and the family ended up leaving just before us and met us at the facility.

I understand that. And that is what lulls idiots like your partner into a false sense of security. Just like idiots who think once PD is on a street scene that it is somehow "safe." If that were true, there wouldn't be hundreds of cops being killed every year.

I am impressed to hear that you were thinking clearly and outside of the box. Next time, go with your instincts. Request a search before you accept the patient. Your partner is a clear example of what is being discussed in another thread. Just because somebody has experience does not mean they know wtf they are doing. Don't EVER conform to what "everybody else" is doing simply to avoid making waves. Do what is right, regardless of what everybody else is doing.

[Ace844]

I understand that. And that is what lulls idiots like your partner into a false sense of security. Just like idiots who think once PD is on a street scene that it is somehow "safe." If that were true, there wouldn't be hundreds of cops being killed every year.

I am impressed to hear that you were thinking clearly and outside of the box. Next time, go with your instincts. Request a search before you accept the patient. Your partner is a clear example of what is being discussed in another thread. Just because somebody has experience does not mean they know wtf they are doing. Don't EVER conform to what "everybody else" is doing simply to avoid making waves. Do what is right, regardless of what everybody else is doing.

"Dust Devil,"

I agree wholeheartedly with you. The only problem with that is in my practice area, if you follow what you suggested, this can quickly lead to an express trip to the unemployment line. Alas, I have been accused of a few things in my time, but not conforming, and worrying about making waves aren't two of them... !! LOL thanx... It used to be here that if you were good at what you do, and treated patients well, etc... You were left alone, now it seems like the incompetent people are chasing the competent ones out or trying to get them fired.....

Out here,

Ace844

[Dustdevil]

...it seems like the incompetent people are chasing the competent ones out or trying to get them fired.

True. The biggest lie in EMS is, "If you always put your patient first, you will always be right." That's BS. The unemployment lines are full of medics who put their patient first and got fired for it. It's not enough to be medically correct. In EMS you have to be politically correct too. Killing patients is perfectly acceptable, so long as you don't question a supervisor or upset the boss' boyfriend. :roll:

Doesn't matter that your personal safety is universally accepted as the number one rule of EMS. If "everybody else" doesn't do it, then you're pegged as a troublemaker. Happens that way in both public and private systems.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Had a partner one time that was working a shooting scene, guy shot 4 times in the chest. Distraught wife on scene sitting on the sofa. She asked my partner if he was dead and my partner said "Not yet" and then the lady pulled a gun out of her pants and shot him 3 more times. He was dead after that. Cops crapped their pants and got in a whole mess of trouble.

Important to remember that for every cop on scene there is at least one gun per cop and sometimes two if they have a back up weapon.

NO SCENE IS EVER SAFE

[Ace844]

Had a partner one time that was working a shooting scene, guy shot 4 times in the chest. Distraught wife on scene sitting on the sofa. She asked my partner if he was dead and my partner said "Not yet" and then the lady pulled a gun out of her pants and shot him 3 more times. He was dead after that. Cops crapped their pants and got in a whole mess of trouble.

Important to remember that for every cop on scene there is at least one gun per cop and sometimes two if they have a back up weapon.

NO SCENE IS EVER SAFE

I've also experienced this in both municipal and privately covered 911 systems. I've even had PD outright refuse to search ETOH and EDP (psych) patient's saying it's not nessary....sad but true....Yet, I've also found that by asking them if they were going to be the ones stuck alone with the patient in a 8x6 confined space whether this would cause them to search the patient first...occasionally this causes their clue phone to ring...and they search the pateint..other times, not so much....

Ace