Paragod: Fact or Fiction?

Dustdevil · October 20, 2005

I'll buy that.

Ace844 · October 20, 2005

Hi All,

I agree with you alittle "Nate" and will elaborate on this abit. I have been thinking about this for abit and I have come tothe following conclusion. The following is JMHLO/ .001.... I guess today may not be a med compliant day for me so I'm going to rant abit...please excuse me while I do so... ahahahaahah

This whole "Paragod complex" has been partly developed, and abused out of some of the necessities of our profession. Perhaps some of these observations are limited to my own narrow experience, and if so please disregard them at your discression.

When a first started doing this I worked with providers who were very knowledgeable, experienced, took pride in what they do and as a whole it was a work environment that fostered peer pressure to learn, accel at your skills and knowledge, be professional, and grow. If you didn't have a desire to learn, be good at what you do, participate as part of the team and were unable to do your fair share, then you weren't welcome. As a result there were more than a few providers who may have fit into your definition of a "paragod". Although I believe there were a few glaring differneces. Even though they had a "cocky attitude" they were able to back up their statements with actions, verifiable knowledge, confidence, compassion,as well as a drive to continuously improve themselves and those around them. So I think that in this debate it is important to differentiate between a "confident provider" whom may exhibit some of the traits of a "paragod", yet is in fact vastly different, and a "Paragod".

The difference between the 2 you ask, is that the negative version of the "Paragod" complex mentioned in the majority of the posts here will be unable to do any of the things I have previously mentioned and will use a condescending demeanor, to mask their lack of confidence, to perform their function in EMS; both in themselves, and their abilities. The bigger problems begin to ensue when these incompetent "paragods" believe they are infact "competent," despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Then they become a danger to all around them, and more importantly a detriment to patient care!!!! This is an important distinction, and I think we have both poulations here on this board...

out here,

Ace844

I'd also like to add the following observation to my previous post. The things that allow some people to accel and to be exceptional at this career/profession/calling/whatever are not necessarily traits that make us easy people to get along, understand, and deal with .....

further food for thought...

out here,

Ace844

nsmedic393 · October 21, 2005

I completely agree.

October 21, 2005

I actually had a respiratory distress call where we had our local ALS unit on. The medic that rode with us is KNOWN asshole who likes to think he's the Paragod of paragods.

At one point he asks if I was a med/nursing student.....

My partner in the rig looked up shocked but kept his mouth shut.

When we got back to the building he told my regular partner/captain and she turned around shocked to me, jaw to her knees, and said that from that particular medic, that's a huge compliment.

:roll:

Tdillon193 · October 21, 2005

Paramedic Shove! What a great expression. I have definitely been a victim of that a time or two. The good thing about my fire dept. is that our officers definitely won't put up with that. In each case, our EMS coordinator and/or fire chief would call the ambulance service and arrange a meeting afterward with the offending paragod. It usually would humble them a bit, and they would be less obnoxious on the next call.

In my experience, it's been the newer paramedics who tend to be the obnoxious ones. The old veterans are very cool, and we have a good rapport with them. The new ones come in and push everybody around and treat us like first responder students, until they learn that we actually know what we're doing and can be a big help to them.

Cheetah · October 22, 2005

Paragod? Did I hear someone call my name?

Chet

October 22, 2005

yes there is a such thing as a paragod, theyre everywhere. Best way to deal with them, dont give them the satisfaction of shoving people around, but dont argue with them.

Granted they know alot, but you also have people who know so much they actually believe they know it all (IE- Steve) and will take pleasure in making everyone else look and feel stupid.

Alot of the Paragod are Medics who have just graduated from Medic school and believe they have every right to trample on everyone else. And they have little to no street experience. I honestly believe that the state needs to have a mandatory 1 year experience as a basic before enrolling in ALS courses, you get to know how it really works for a basic and how much a Medic really needs his basic to help out on scene. Arkansas used to have a 5year waiting period back in the early 80s to mid 90s.

Perhaps this little "waiting period" might actually help curb the paragod syndrome and also "wash out" those who may not be able to make it in EMS.

-Alco

Or people who pass judgment that do not actually work in the field,yet always have there "0.2 cents".

kevkei · October 22, 2005

Yes, but lets not discount the occasion which sometimes one comes upon whereby the Basic has to take the time to explain to the Paramedic the phys, pathophys, and why they should be ALSing a sick patient and the paramedic does the "huh....what...hey, how do you know that...""?!?!?!?!?
It's always a sad day when the basic is smarter than the medic..!!!! Some days, it happens alot more than it should....

ace844

This is an example of a BLS Para-God, where they think they know more than a responding Medic. Based on what? I've had EMT's argue with me because they "knew" more than me but their perception is out in right field because what they thought they knew was actually wrong. Just because they think they know more doesn't mean they do. This is the perception again of "BLS saves ALS" and is just as bad, if not worse than an ALS crew or provider demeaning a BLS crew or provider.

Ace844 · October 22, 2005

This is an example of a BLS Para-God, where they think they know more than a responding Medic. Based on what? I've had EMT's argue with me because they "knew" more than me but their perception is out in right field because what they thought they knew was actually wrong. Just because they think they know more doesn't mean they do. This is the perception again of "BLS saves ALS" and is just as bad, if not worse than an ALS crew or provider demeaning a BLS crew or provider.

Instance #1: Hmmmmm....me and my partner in a 911 system respond to a NH for diff breathing we find a 78yo F In acute CHF, c/o SSCP/SOB, is +4 diaphoretic with a JVP of 15, and b/p 80/60, hr130, rr40's+, and all the accompanying S/s's @sx's . The paramedic truck pulls in just after we had loaded the pt in the truck shows up and hops in the back of my bus does a 2 sec assessment, and says..hmm this patient needs to get to the hospital, this is a seems like a BLS call..Triage to BLS..and leaves....You really mean to tell me that wasn't an ALS patient....?!?!?!?!? We get to the ER and give report to "the Team" and the attending asks me, "ace, why no ALS for this call???" I respond, oh we got an interecpt but they triaged down to BLS, and felt this wasn't an ALS patient....!!!!!" The doc, replies, "Really?!?!?!? WTF....which unit was this again?!??!!" Yeah certainly I was outta line in that call. Let's try another example....

Example #2: MVA car vs tree @ approx 100MPH, driver was ejected and was my patient, passenger was a fatality, the car was basically sheared in half. The patient had bilat. lower extremity paralysis and retrograde amnesia/head injury...The paramedic gets in the truck and does a cursory assessment, and says...you guys are all set right..He's not gonna get any better, so we're gonna stay with the fatal until the Detectives come.....Yeah that patient wasn't ALS either right.....?!!?!?!!? Yeah that was definately a case where I was the "BLS version of a paragod" We get the patient to the trauma center, see above for the MD responses/queries... . Now, I'll refer you to my other posts which I guess you may not have read.....

Ace844 wrote:
Nate wrote:

Don't get me wrong, they are funny to laugh at; but there are some that need to be delt with because they won't know when to stop because to them...they have no limits. There are however; some really good paramedics with that kind of complex.

Hi All,

I agree with you alittle "Nate" and will elaborate on this abit. I have been thinking about this for abit and I have come tothe following conclusion. The following is JMHLO/ .001.... I guess today may not be a med compliant day for me so I'm going to rant abit...please excuse me while I do so... ahahahaahah

This whole "Paragod complex" has been partly developed, and abused out of some of the necessities of our profession. Perhaps some of these observations are limited to my own narrow experience, and if so please disregard them at your discression.

When a first started doing this I worked with providers who were very knowledgeable, experienced, took pride in what they do and as a whole it was a work environment that fostered peer pressure to learn, accel at your skills and knowledge, be professional, and grow. If you didn't have a desire to learn, be good at what you do, participate as part of the team and were unable to do your fair share, then you weren't welcome. As a result there were more than a few providers who may have fit into your definition of a "paragod". Although I believe there were a few glaring differneces. Even though they had a "cocky attitude" they were able to back up their statements with actions, verifiable knowledge, confidence, compassion,as well as a drive to continuously improve themselves and those around them. So I think that in this debate it is important to differentiate between a "confident provider" whom may exhibit some of the traits of a "paragod", yet is in fact vastly different, and a "Paragod".

The difference between the 2 you ask, is that the negative version of the "Paragod" complex mentioned in the majority of the posts here will be unable to do any of the things I have previously mentioned and will use a condescending demeanor, to mask their lack of confidence, to perform their function in EMS; both in themselves, and their abilities. The bigger problems begin to ensue when these incompetent "paragods" believe they are infact "competent," despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Then they become a danger to all around them, and more importantly a detriment to patient care!!!! This is an important distinction, and I think we have both poulations here on this board...

out here,

Ace844

I'd also like to add the following observation to my previous post. The things that allow some people to accel and to be exceptional at this career/profession/calling/whatever are not necessarily traits that make us easy people to get along, understand, and deal with .....

further food for thought...

out here,

Ace844

To answer your query on,

"Based on what? I've had EMT's argue with me because they "knew" more than me but their perception is out in right field because what they thought they knew was actually wrong. Just because they think they know more doesn't mean they do."

In my instance, and in some others how about a whole lot of education and street experience to back it up....Or are you one of those medics who think all basics are automatically stupid, even without you having given them the chance to prove different???

Oh and FYI, IMHLO, BLS doesn't save ALS, or even the other way around, we work together to treat patient's and help them!! Or at least that's how it's suppossed to work. Yet you obviously don't feel that way because of the statements you have already made here... This job isn't about a juvenille ego contest but about helping people at the time of their greatest need..Or at least where I come from it is. If you disagree then perhaps you should consider getting out!!!!

So in closing, as you can see there are indeed many times where the basic is infact smarter or even has to "explain" to the medic how to do his job because as in the 2 examples provided, the patient suffers, and they are a patient's advocate..Or just as likely one may even be to ignorant to recognize their own ignorance...!!!!! Sadly sometimes this happens all too often...as is clearly evidenced by the amount of other threads here that even some medics themselves talk about their opinions/experiences with subpar paramedics...so which are you????

out here,

Ace844

Dustdevil · October 22, 2005

You're crapping my thread. :roll:

The topic is not about medics who are a-holes. It is about medics who become a-holes only after becoming a medic. If you have no specific occurrence of this phenomenon to cite, then you're off topic.

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Paragod: Fact or Fiction?