Spin-Off on Gun Control - What Constitutes Mentally ill ?

[mikeymedic1984]

So here is a scenario (a real one): You pick up a mentally ill ETOH patient at the local pay-by-the-week motel. He would be homeless, but he draws a disability check that keeps him in motels and booze. Patient is depressed, and has been in and out of psych facilities several times per year. His psych facility has granted him admission, and he is seeking transport to the psych facility. All of his worldly belongings are in his hotel room, which he demands to take. Upon arrival at the facility (which could just as easily be the ER for those who dont do transports to a psych facility), they notify him that they are going to search his belongings, to which he replies "my gun is in that green knap-sack, its in a black zip-up case". Staff takes the weapon, puts it in the safe, and acknowledges that they have accepted it and all other valuables on a sheet of paper that the patient and staff sign. After the patient is taken back to the triage area, you inquire as to what will happen with the gun. The staff advises that as long as he is not suicidal or homicidal, they have to give it back to him upon being disharged (it will remain in the safe until then).

Question 1:

Does EMS have the right to search a patient's belongings in this situation?

Question 2:

Mentally ill persons are not supposed to be able to own firearms, but what constitutes mentally ill ? Depressed, Bi-polar, Schyzophrenia, Manic ??? OR IS IT JUST SUICIDAL AND HOMICIDAL IN YOUR STATE ??

QUESTION 3:

Would you report this patient to the police ? Would they do anything about it if you did ?

There is already a thread on here about what EMS personnel should do regarding the transport of a weapon in the ambulance (if known about), so there is no reason to rehash that arguement. Just wondering how this is handled in various areas ?

Edited January 22, 2013 by mikeymedic1984

[island emt]

we do not have a legal right to search through their belongings.

That said : doing a trauma assessment from head to toe will allow you to determine quickly if the pt is armed on their person.

I have discovered firearms on a pt and removed them to the safety of an outside compartment or the leo on scene. Once had a 70ish grandma with chest pain, that when assessing for lung sounds found a loaded round in the chamber colt in a strap holster on her waist..

Sorry not in my ambulance ma am.

[Kiwiology]

What constitutes mental illness is a very interesting question and one I have often pondered.

I think there are different kinds of mental illness; there are those who are a bit depressed or whatever right through to those who require to be held securely in an inpatient psychiatric facility because the voices are telling them to kill people.

Now me, I am fucked in the head there is no denying it but I am psychologically fucked up, I don't have a structural or organic psychiatric condition where voices that come out the bathroom tap are telling me to go kill people nor am I having hallucinations that I am playing with the Rolling Stones or something like that, fuck that, I'd rather have some sort of delusions that I was doing a duo of "Piano Man" with Billy Joel or playing with Sugarland or something, you know, fuck the Rolling Stones ... anyway.

Should I be not allowed to have guns because of a "mental illness" ... well no.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Kiwiology

[scubanurse]

There is a fine line of when to allow someone to own a gun. Just because someone had a moment where they felt suicidal doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed a gun. In Colorado I believe the line is a court ordered psych hold and the general felonies etc...

[aussiephil]

http://allpsych.com/disorders/index.html

This is where you will discover what constitutes a mental illness.

This is an abstract from the publication by the American Psychiatric Association & is used to diagnose recognoised mental illnesses.

My question is should someone who is diagnosed with a mental illness of Narcilepsy be categorised in the same way that someone with schizophrenia, paranoid type is? or should we look at each case individually, without tarring each person with mental illness with the same brush?

If you want to be considered professional, take the emotion out of the gun debate. stop laying the blame on people with mental illness. Look at reality.

I do not want to impinge on your constitutional right to bear arms, god forbid, but please answer me one question. Considering the types of weapons used in most gun crime, many are fully automatic weapons, like the bushmaster .223 capable of holding a 30 cartridge magazine, what need is there for them, outside a military use? Hunting does not need this capability, a true hunter is about the skill & aim for 1 shot, not 30. Why should these weapons not be restricted & manufacturers be accountrable for every one produced?

[craig]

I agree with my little mate philip on this one............/

[BushyFromOz]

Working for ASNSW???

[Kiwiology]

Top reasons why working for ASNSW is clearly a sign of mental illness ....

- Too much blue (uniforms and gloves are both totally 100% blue)

- Old school stretchers from at least 10 years ago (Stryker FTW!)

- Not requiring a University Degree (I hear its being worked on)

- Still having "Protocols" instead of guidelines which in my reading are quite restrictive

- From what I understand non-transport is not an option, if the patient wants to go they must be taken

- Um, its NSW?

[BushyFromOz]

Um, its NSW?

my point exactly

[Kiwiology]

Now, I can't be all harsh and shit on ASNSW, they have done some good things like ...

- SCAT and Ambulance Rescue (the difference I have not figured out. nor do I understand what makes Ambulance Rescue and Police Rescue different in NSW, who knows?)

- GSA HEMS, those blokes are seriously badass

- PTO and Paramedic have separate uniform (can we PLEASE do to that here?)

- Motorcycle response unit