Not sure what to do....What Would You Do?

[island emt]

Ethics is a dilemma .

it seems to me that younger generations learned them differently than folks of my age group.

Right & wrong have different meanings to some.

the instructors have a need to make sure that all are playing the game by the same rules.

Considering that most classes are usually held in close quarters, we used to give out the same test with the questions in different order just to weed out those that might be sharing the answers to the multiple choice or matching questions.

It was always fun to let them know they got the correct answers:: only to the wrong questions.

That usually put a stop to sharing after the prima donnas bombed a quiz or test.

Even had a couple that were texting answers to each other.

[Just Plain Ruff]

I remember one time when I was giving a quiz, I gave two different versions. The students cheated off each other when I left the room.

When the tests were graded, several had failed. They disputed the quiz results and I let them know that there was suspicion of cheating and I had given a quiz with two different versions.

The quiz was the same questions but the answers were in different order.

I told them that this would be the way things ran from here on out. I would make subtle changes to each quiz and also to each test. That way there was no guarantee that they would have the same test as the next person.

That nipped the cheating in the bud. The students were rather upset but I told them they only had the cheaters to blame.

[mikeymedic1984]

Sorry Island, but right and wrong are not different, they are always right or wrong, we just choose to try to blur them to get the outcome we want. For instance: answer this, "If you were hungry, would it be ok to steal a fresh baked pie from someone's window sill, or a piece of fruit from the grocery store ?" Many would answer yes, but that is not correct, stealing is stealing -- just because you have an unusual circumstance in your life does not give you the right to take from someone else (it's like Obamacare LOL). The definition of being a responsible adult ? Doing the right thing when no one is looking ! JNG, you should not feel guilty about turning them in. It is like I have said many a time, if you ask my employees how many people I have terminated in the last 5 years, they would come up with a number (I dont know how many have been terminated). But if you would ask me, I would say I have never terminated anyone in my whole career; the employee terminated themselves by their actions or inactions, I just filled out the paperwork for them.

[jnjplus6]

I have found that this is not the first time I've been faced with a moral dilemma, that there are probably more that are not following their moral compas and it truly amazes me how it isn't always the young adults that are acting inappropriately.

Over the weekend, when I was still rolling the cheating issue around in my head, I thought I'd ask the youngest 2 children (ages 14 son & 17 daughter) about how they felt about a hypothetical story, which happened to be what happened, I just didn't tell them it happened in my class and that I was the witness. My daughter was at a friend's house, so she was asked about it later in the day. I am proud to say that both of them said that if it happened to them, they would be mad and wouldn't have any problem speaking up about it, whether is was confidential or not. When asked what they thought if someone called them a snitch or rat, they went on to tell me that it didn't matter, what the cheaters were doing was wrong, unfair to the others in the class and it wouldn't make them very trustworthy as a friend in the future. I'm amazed that my youngest 2 weren't worried about any ramifications, yet their mom is a total freak about it. lol

In my defense, I did have to deal with retaliation issues after I reporting my then paramedic partner. It was my first paid job as a basic, and my first time to work this paramedic. She was rumored to be difficult to work with, but I had an open mind and typically give everyone the benefit of the doubt, until they prove otherwise. The first part of the shift, we are checking off the truck and my partner wants to change out the main O2 tank. No problem, so I am trying to get the tank out of the storage area at the station, when my supervisor stopped me and wanted to know what was going on and wanted to know how much O2 was left in the tank on the truck. Since I didn't look at the reading, I wasnt' sure. My partner comes to find out what's taking me so long and proceeds to tell the supervisor that there was 400psi on the tank and that she wanted it changed out. The supervisor reminded her that the service's protocols state to change it out at 200psi, yet she wanted to argue with him and told him 500psi. I just sat back and listened. We ended up not changing out the tank and started taking calls. After lunch, we are dispatched to a call for a patient from a long term/rehab hospital to a major hospital for some testing. The patient was ALS, needing cardiac monitoring, O2 and the hospital also wanted a pulse ox to monitor his sat rates continuously. Our service did not carry a pulse ox on trucks, and that fact was just another bee in my partner's bonnet. The hospital loaned us theirs since we were just bringing the patient back after his tests, so we transport him to the testing hospital a few blocks away. We were to remain at the hospital until the patient was ready to be returned. So we grab something to drink and go out to the bay for our "breathing treatments". That is when my "lovely" partner tells me that she left the main O2 running. My reaction is, okay, I'll go cut it off. She then stops me, tells me that she wants it to run out and for me not to touch it. She then goes to see how much we had left and then makes a phone call to dispatch to tell them that we were out of service, send another truck and we need a main O2 tank because we were out! She even went so far as to lie about how many portable tanks we had and the amount that was in them. Our station was about 25-30 miles away from where we were and there were no other units available to take over our patient or bring us O2. I had never been put in a situation like that before and sadly it rattled me quite a bit on who I could trust at work. I couldn't believe that someone would do something of that nature just to prove a point. The rest of the time working with this woman was extremely uncomfortable and I couldn't stop thinking about the whole thing. Thankfully, our supervisor knew that there was something up with the whole O2 thing and had someone talk with my partner at the same time he was talking to me. Ended up writing a detailed incident report and she ended up fired. We all know that each city's EMS community is pretty close knit, you can't sneeze wrong without another service hearing about it. My partner ended up getting hired by another service, later as an ER tech while she went to nursing school and now an ER nurse. Not only is it awkward to run into her, but she would talk trash to me, threaten to do this or that to me, and basically harass me anytime she has an opportunity. My next shift was a 24, and I went out to find someone had slashed 2 of my tires. I couldn't prove who did it, but always had an idea.

Why is it when someone is doing the right thing by reporting another's indiscretion or wrong doing, they end up feeling worse than the person that was doing wrong? Sometimes it feels like it's such a heavy burden staying on the straight and narrow. I lose sleep when I have a situation like the cheating thing because I think and analyze things, I can't imagine what I'd be like if I was the one doing the cheating. lol

[MariB]

Luckily our class has never done any cheating that I know of, but our instructors never leave.

The skills testing is a whole different thing. It happens all the time to me. I will fail a skills test for not verbalizing a chief complaint, or for the patient not needing a C collar, or because I didn't tell them the patient had a pulse, even though he was talking to me and alert etc. They have told me I have been in the field so much I forget to verbalize what im seeing or thinking. My assessments are great, I just don't speak what I see. These are failing points.

However, someone behind me can forget to even take my vitals, or apply O2. Or something and pass.

I learned it was what they expected from certain individual at that time. Their capabilities. They want you to get better and better. So pushing me to verbalize, while pushing someone else to just take a pulse.

In the end, we should all equal out.

And they are just trying to make us the best we as individuals can be.

[Bernhard]

Team play (and, "leading") for me in those situations is:

• If the incident is uncritical but wrong: talk to them. In your cheating situation, talk to the cheater afterwards that you don't like the situation he/she brings you in. Let the cheater understand that he is a danger for all involved, because beeing catched during cheating often both parties have a rough time. Warn him/her that next time you will notify the instructors.
• If the incident is critical as in the O2-situation, make clear that this behaviour shows the partner isn't reliable and you wouldn't accept this and/or getting drawn into it. I would have switched the O2 off before this talk. Warn her, that you will notify the supervisor if she continues.
• Seeing yourself beeing treated too hard is your point of view. That even may be good, because instructors may feel you beeing a better provider who serves to be held by higher standards - even if this isn't what you want... Get over it, make your test appearance perfect! If there really is a personal case with you and one or more instructors, then try to talk with them or their superior. Things like that happen all the time in classrooms, teaching institutions usually can deal with that. Getting off school is an option, too, but I don't see this in your case yet.
• Witnessing a malperforming classmate is time to show your partnership and leading skills. Offer tips & help in a friendly manner (and outside instructors hearing range), if they accept it, good, if not, their problem. Don't moan about it.

All of this is needed not only in classroom but in almost any real job environment - and such situations happen all the time. Get used to it. Maybe my rule of "1 warning shot, then hit" is a rule of thumb for you, too. Don't get drawn into semi-legal "buddy issues" and keep a clear mind. In the end, it's your personal career you may risk when your so-called partner does shit. She/he can't pretend beeing a real "partner" worth to be covered when intentionally risking your future.

[DwayneEMTP]

You know jnj, unfortunately it sounds like you've just been part of a pretty bad program.

Leaving people alone to test not only invites cheating but shows the value that your program places on their tests. They have no respect for them, so few others will either. Of course that doesn't make cheating right, but it's been my experience that the vast majority of those going into EMS care little for education and/or right and wrong.

I too made some waves in my paramedic class, not necessarily based on right and wrong but instead on the basis that I paid a high price, both financially and emotionally to take it and was unwilling to settle for poor when I felt that I could make something better. On my first night in class (college level, 6 semester course) we were playing a Jepardy kind of game. One of the answers was "Oral Pharynx". The person on the other team answered "Oral Pharnyx", in my experience a common mispronounciation. They were given the point, which I could really have cared less about, but I said, "That answer's not correct, right? It's prounounced "Pharynx." The instructor said, "That's ok, it's close enough." I said, "Were in a paramedic class, how can misprounouncing common anatomical terms be ok??" "Let's move on...." was the answer.

A few weeks in the one other student that really cared about his grades and I were comparing test scores, he having beaten me by a few points which pissed me off royally, and a different instructor butted into our conversation, saying, "Oh...you're one of those students that believes that they are going to put your test scores on your patch, right? None of that matters in the real world..."

So I finally went to the chair of the EMS section and complained, both verbally and in writing, about the attitudes of those that I was paying nearly $10k to teach me to become a competent paramedic. I'm not sure what was done, but only that the instructors became pretty chilly towards me for a few weeks, leaning on me pretty hard each time there was a chance. I cared little for their attitudes, as I was solidly a member here at that time so got all of the support I needed at the City, as well, pushing me harder and trying to create more stress is exactly what I wanted from them, so it was a win/win. I got a better education, and I believe that I left the program better than I'd found it.

When I read your posts it sounds to me like that is more what you were looking for also. Not a chance to say, "Look, Bob and Sally were cheating!! Neener neener they should get in trouble!" But instead to create a better program to learn in and to leave it better than you found it. I like both of those things.

As far as allowing weak people to pass skills....that makes me see red. If you can't man/woman up under the pressure of a teaching environment then you will almost certainly be useless when my family calls for your help. And for me, that's what it boils down to. Who will you be, what will you be capable of when my wife or son calls for your help?

I like your attitude a lot...But as you've seen in the past, should you try and be an intelligent provider, should you be willing to stop and say, "This is unacceptable and I'm not going to allow it to happen.", you will rarely be popular.

And last, but not least, what an excellent first post! Thanks for taking the time to participate...

[AnatomyChick]

As an Instructor, I want people to come to me with problems, solutions or ways to make the program better. I want to know what is being done when I am not around.... I think it shows true character. With that said, I agree, that if the quiz was that important, the Instructor should not have left the room, but I can also play Devil's advocate and make a point that when you are the only instructor in the "house" that night, there are often a lot of things to get done or set up in a relatively short period of time.

I think you did the right thing, and I commend your Instructor for looking into the situation.

What a good discussion!