Elderly Woman Dies After Nurse Refuses to Give Her CPR

[Just Plain Ruff]

Like I said in an earlier post, If the lawyers got ahold of the family I'll bet the family start to see dollar signs on the horizon.

Here is what will play out.

1. The daughter will hire a lawyer

2. The daughter will sue

3. The facility will fire the director and the nurse who made the call

4. The facility will change it's policy to keep from having this happen again

5. The facility will settle out of court and we won't hear what the settlement terms were

6. The dispatcher will be hailed to be a hero for all elderly people in the world who might be forced to have CPR withheld from them by the MAN

7. EMS will be working a lot more codes

8. We will have a lot more loved one's who should have died but didn't and we get to visit them in full nursing centers because they were "SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!YAY YAY YAY" by the heroic efforts of the 911 system when they should have actually have signed a DNR or something to that effect.

But the nurse is going to be fired and the policy of the facility will change within 3 months after a stringent review of what happened.

[paramedicmike]

I like how the employer initially said that the employee acted within the bounds of the protocol and now they're saying the employee was wrong.

It's interesting to watch this unfold and the changes in the story. Unfortunately, it does little but muddy the waters. We'll never know the real story.

[ERDoc]

Ruff, I think you are right on. This nurse is going to be the sacrificial lamb for the prolong-life-for-2-days-at-all-costs cause.

[triemal04]

Actually I don't think we are really very far off in what we are trying to say. I do agree with you that she might have done this thousands of times before thus making her an expert but honestly I don't agree. Here's where I think we disagree and let me see if I can get it right. You think that she might be a pro at calling these things in. I see that and can understand that but she has no emotion in her voice and that's what got me. I mean there is no emotion in her voice that leads me to think that she cares about this lady. It's like she's an automaton and that's what's got me. I'm sure that she's was just doing her job which required her to make the phone call and deal with a very persistent and irritating dispatcher. I am NOT faulting her for doing her job, sticking to her guns on the no cpr policy. I've just not heard anyone on the phone like that with that level of tone in a very long time. The last time was a psych patient.

Again, I'm not faulting her, nor villifying her for doing her job, jsut the unemotional side of it. Does that make more sense?

Sorry, not to beat a dead horse, but no. I can come up with a dozen different reasons why someone would have a flat affect while calling 911 or otherwise not sound worked up, but it doesn't change the bottom line (for me at least): just because you don't sound "panicked" (not the best word but it get's the point across) does not mean that you aren't aware of what is going on. This may bother you on a personal level, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong.

I like how the employer initially said that the employee acted within the bounds of the protocol and now they're saying the employee was wrong.

It's interesting to watch this unfold and the changes in the story. Unfortunately, it does little but muddy the waters. We'll never know the real story.

Do you have a link to that?

Like I said in an earlier post, If the lawyers got ahold of the family I'll bet the family start to see dollar signs on the horizon.

Here is what will play out.

1. The daughter will hire a lawyer

2. The daughter will sue

3. The facility will fire the director and the nurse who made the call

4. The facility will change it's policy to keep from having this happen again

5. The facility will settle out of court and we won't hear what the settlement terms were

6. The dispatcher will be hailed to be a hero for all elderly people in the world who might be forced to have CPR withheld from them by the MAN

7. EMS will be working a lot more codes

8. We will have a lot more loved one's who should have died but didn't and we get to visit them in full nursing centers because they were "SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!YAY YAY YAY" by the heroic efforts of the 911 system when they should have actually have signed a DNR or something to that effect.

But the nurse is going to be fired and the policy of the facility will change within 3 months after a stringent review of what happened.

Unfortunately that is a very real possibility. I'm still hoping that the opposite happens; people will become more aware of the importance of advance directives, AND aware of what a complete resucitation from cardiac arrest entails, and the low likelihood of a good outcome.

Wow...I actually made myself laugh when I typed that...

[Just Plain Ruff]

Sorry, not to beat a dead horse, but no. I can come up with a dozen different reasons why someone would have a flat affect while calling 911 or otherwise not sound worked up, but it doesn't change the bottom line (for me at least): just because you don't sound "panicked" (not the best word but it get's the point across) does not mean that you aren't aware of what is going on. This may bother you on a personal level, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong.

Triemal, I'm not saying the nurse was wrong, never said that, I just said it bothered me that she sounded so disconnected. Again, I've never faulted her for following policy, never once got on the band wagon to villify what she did was wrong because I don't think she was in the wrong in the least. I just was bothered by her flat affect.

And I am totally seeing where you are coming from and I'm not arguing that your point is invalid either, we see things differently and that is what makes it nice to have a debate like this.

If I were a manager would I want 100 more of her working for me dialing 911, I think I might because she was able to relay the particulars without being stressed.

What I tried to say in my original post was that as a dispatcher in the past, I never heard ANY caller from a nursing home who sounded as calm, cool, detached and collected as she did. As a manager, that's the type of person you really want working for you to be able to give the info to the EMS staff or 911 dispatchers. Don't you wish all callers could give as good info as this lady did on the phone.

Plus she really held her ground against a very persistent dispatcher.

But she better polish her resume. She can now put in her highlights or bullet points "Overnight Media Sensation"

[chbare]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/05/17199790-family-of-california-woman-who-died-after-being-denied-cpr-says-she-wanted-no-intervention?lite

One of many articles about this evolving case. At this point, I cannot make much out of it and while it's noncommittal in terms of dialogue, discretion is probably the best pathway to take. I honestly cannot say with any degree of certainty who is absolutely wrong or right. While I may have feelings about what is going on, I find this difficult to compartmentalise and as such, I fear any decision will be more emotional and less objective.

[triemal04]

No no no, when I said "wrong" I wasn't talking about her actions; I meant your view of how she sounded. Or at least that was how you came across as feeling. Either way, she's screwed.

[paramedicmike]

Do you have a link to that?

The story in the OP to this thread says,

In the event of a health emergency at this independent living community, our practice is to immediately call emergency medical personnel for assistance and to wait with the individual needing attention until such personnel arrives. That is the protocol we followed...

The link ERDoc provided on page four of this discussion says,

This incident resulted from a complete misunderstanding of our practice with regards to emergency medical care for our residents," the statement said.

[triemal04]

Well...have to see what comes out of this. Maybe something good might happen. But I still doubt it.

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/Statement-from-family-of-elderly-woman-denied-CPR-195476801.html#familystatement

On a side note, lesson number 5 should have been number one, applies to more than just the web, and should be run as a banner on every TV newscast.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2013/03/06/the-cpr-death-at-glenwood-gardens-what-really-happened-and-five-lessons-you-should-learn/

[MikeEMT]

It appears that I was right in my assumption of an Advanced Directive: http://news.yahoo.com/family-woman-denied-cpr-wanted-no-intervention-013800673.html

Capttohellwithitall summed it up best "media sucks donkey balls." They blew this all out of proportion when it was a non issue.