ERDoc Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 chbare, I hope I am not going in a direction you did not intend for this thread to go by asking a followup question to yours. Let's put aside the reconciliation of fundamental dogma for a minute. How do people who believe in the bible reconcile the history, as reported in the bible, with available scientific facts (ie the story of Noah and the flood)? Kaisu, do you believe in a young earth? 1
Kaisu Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 No Doc I do not. And neither does the bible. Genesis is allegory, written for a specific people at a specific time in history within a specific cultural context. Understanding the thinking of that time and place illuminates the mystery and yet the simplicity, the enormous power and impact of the big bang and a constantly expanding universe.. Chbare, I am a firm believer in the scientific method - constantly revising practices in the face of new evidence. The same applies to my understanding of God. Just as homosexuality was banned in the Old Testament, anyone who reviles the power of sexuality and love today is going contrary to God's Love. The evidence is in the Bible 1
ERDoc Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Herein lies the problem. There are others of the Christian faith that would say Genesis dates the world to about 6000 years old. Who is correct and how do we decide? 1
chbare Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) There are also others (biblical scholars) who say that the old testament is just as valid as the new testament and the bible as a whole is to be taken literally. Who is correct, what evidence exists to validate one belief over another? Additionally, how do other belief systems come into play? For example, what evidence is there for the "Christian" view being superior or having more validity than any of the many other religions practised on the planet or even other types of Christianity for that matter? I appreciate the dialogue and want to continue to stress that I am about discussing ideas, evidence and logic, but not attacking people personally. Edit: Again, these are all questions that people likely face as they begin to question long held beliefs, so I do not think we have gone off topic too much. Edited March 20, 2013 by chbare
Kaisu Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Do you know the story of the blind village and the elephant? A village of blind men were visited by an elephant. No one had any experience of the elephant. The elders went out to meet this strange thing. On felt the trunk - said the elephant was a tree limb; another the leg; said the elephant was a tree trunk - Still another the end of the tusk - the elephant is a rhinocerous... etc. etc. etc. The entire village fell into bloodshed over the conflicting views of the elephant.... God is a relationship. No matter how good we are at feeling with our fingers or how fast our feet are at covering the territory, we only glimpse pieces of God. Our responsibility is to keep examining, keep learning and to express the piece we have experienced as truthfully and honestly as we can, and always to understand that we only have a piece. I had a discussion with a Christian about the only way to God is through Christ. I asked him - what about a Christian the professes Christ in church, yet is a selfish bastard, hurting everyone around him/her in their life? Contrast that with a person who has never heard of Christ yet practices love and charity, long sufferingness and self sacrifice in a quest for truth? Which would Christ recognize as a diciple? They actually thought about that and changed. It was pretty awesome really.
ERDoc Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 So are you saying we shouldn't believe what is written in the bible?
Kaisu Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 No I'm not. Every word in the Bible is divinely inspired and true... You just have to understand what the word meant at that time and place to those people.. and understand that we only have a piece that was important at that time to those people... I had one of my own crises of faith (and I'v had many) about 20 years ago. I went to my mainstream church pastor (extemely educated in Europe- theologically advanced and is now the head pastor in one of Scandinavia's capital churches) and told him I had to leave the church because I could no longer say the creed; that I didn't believe it anymore and would not say what I didn't believe. He said to me "Write your own creed. The Living Word is more important than Paul's creed 2000 years ago". Blew my freaking mind... what a challenge. PS.. I say the creed now and I believe every word - just in a totally different way than back then..
paramedicmike Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 No I'm not. Every word in the Bible is divinely inspired and true... You just have to understand what the word meant at that time and place to those people.. and understand that we only have a piece that was important at that time to those people... The Quran is considered to be the literal and verbatim word of god. Wouldn't the literal word would trump the divinely inspired word? It's an interesting question. Theological beliefs versus theological beliefs. Which is correct? Which is not? 1
ERDoc Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) And if it is divinely inspired and true, yet there are multiple interpretations that contradict each other, how do we know what is true? And if it is divinely inspired and true, how do we explain it when the book disagrees with the evidence? EDIT: Sorry for the similar post to Mike's, we were posting at the same time. Edited March 20, 2013 by ERDoc
Kaisu Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Doc - have you truly studied the bible in light of your own theological understanding? Have you compared beliefs? Have you read the Christian apologists? I respectfully submit that your study is incomplete and suggest that you don't know what you are talking about... It's a difficult study to keep an open mind and read the true evidence.. It also requires a spiritual willingness to understand. I don't pretend to know everything.. and I am a far from perfect teacher. Perhaps you should seek out people who truly do know what they are talking about. Christ said "seek and ye shall find" . In the infamous line of the "X files" the truth is out there. It's frustrating and sometimes difficult, but so worth the effort.
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