Belief system changes with education

[island emt]

Just a curiosity I've had for decades. Was born a RC and feared the nuns with a ruler in grade school , knew the mass in traditional latin, Leaned away after seeing some of the questionable acts of the priest as an alterboy. Tried reading & studying the Bible and then in the Navy was exposed to many different beliefs, all founded in individual leanings of the "TRUTH".

Met some born again christians while in the Navy and found them to be too far out there to be believable.

Saw horrors that a true GOD could not allow to happen to his/ her children, Saw people murdered in "the name of the Lord" ,

I guess I'm one of those folks that as I got older found myself questioning what I had been led to believe as the truth and watched those truths fall by the wayside.

The more you know::: the less you know as the truth ?????

Now as an old guy, I'm set in my ways and have a pretty good idea of what the afterlife will hold.

Worm food as my ashes are spread over the ground

[Kaisu]

I think this captures my religious beliefs exactly....

and PS - I keep it to myself unless asked :-)

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion

[chbare]

Allow me to nudge the dialogue in another direction? Is an environment where we have hide their beliefs a good thing? A staple of many sects of Christianity revolves around the fact that if you do not believe, you are going to hell. In other words, you are doomed in the worst way imaginable from the Christian perspective. This is also true of other religions as well.

Therefore, if you are a Christian who believes this to be true, what kind of person are you if you don't go out and proselytize? If I believed, honestly believed that you were on the train tracks with a train coming to ruin your existence, what kind of person would I be if I didn't at least try to get you to move off the tracks, even if you failed to acknowledge that the train was coming?

Are religious people who keep it to themselves really any better (from a moral perspective) than the people who are actively proselytizing?

[paramedicmike]

That's one of the tenets of many religions. Especially Christianity based religions. You are directed to go out and proselytize.

I think the moral perspective here would depend on the viewpoint of the person answering. The religious might argue it's moral to go out and spread the word. Those of other beliefs, or no beliefs, might argue that it is morally irresponsible to force one's viewpoints on others.

[systemet]

I realise that I may be a little late to the party, and hope that this doesn't count as a thread necro.

I'm not convinced that science and religion are incompatible. A lot of great scientists, including Newton and Einstein, were able to reconcile the two in their personal beliefs.

While I'm not religious myself, I'd argue that science and religion speak to different domains. Science encompasses all that can be formed into a "testable hypothesis". The concept that "There exists a supernatural entity, undetectable by normal physical means", is not a testable hypothesis, therefore it's not a scientific belief. The tools of science are not useful in answering this question. In the same way that there's no scientific answer to questions like "What's the best way to live my life?", or "How should I treat other people?". To some extent, we can contort these into semi-scientific questions, like "How should I best interact with people in order to maximise by financial income?", or "How should I live my life in order to avoid suffering chronic disease?", but the original questions as formed fall more into some sort of "spiritual" or "religious" box.

A literal interpretation of the bible certainly clashes with science, as ERDoc and others have given examples of. The ideas of resurrection, or bringing the dead to life (at least 2,000 years ago!), would require a substantial adjustment of modern science. They tend to fail "Occam's razor", the concept that the simplest given explanation that accounts for all aspects of an observed phenomenon is most likely to be correct. The hypothesis that we live in a world that's 6,000 years old which has been elaborately constructed by some form of supernatural deity to appear older than it actually is, and that this information has been preserved by a select few since antiquity, is certainly more complex than the currently accepted scientific explanation. But it also remains fundamentally untestable, placing it outside of the realm of scientific enquiry.

I think that ultimately, science and religion cover different spheres of knowledge, and are different means of interpreting the world around us. THey have their inherrent limitations, but most of the problems occur when they try to encroach upon each other.

To chbare - if you have a student who is losing religious faith because they're learning more about science - if this person is an adult, I don't think you have any obligation to withhold your personal opinions. If they're foolish enough to let an instructor define their world view unquestioningly, then they obviously weren't going to get very far in terms of rational enquiry. I would suggest prefacing anything you state with "this is my personal opinion", or providing an explanation as to the limits of current knowledge. I suspect that you already do this.

[chbare]

Actually Einstein was not religious in any traditional sense. Einstein's "God" was not the traditional faith based view of an intelligent, omniscient, omnipotent being, but rather more like the God of Spinoza, like the God of beauty, harmony and so on. In other words, it is somewhat debatable what exactly Einstein thought, but most would certainly agree that he did not believe in any sort of personal God.

Newton was religious, but he clearly used the God of the gaps argument and I can only wonder what he would say today now that the gaps he used to justify his beliefs in his writings are now answered?

Actually, I have to be very careful how I talk with students. Discussion about religion, faith and such are very divisive subjects in the United States and teachers have been disciplined and even fired due to religious themed activities and discussions. Therefore, talking to somebody about religion in the context I have presented, requires one to be very careful in how they approach the topic.

Edited March 29, 2013 by chbare

[scubanurse]

Having been raised Roman Catholic, attended catholic schools all my life and now attend a Jesuit University, I believe in both. I took a health care ethics class taught by a Jesuit Priest. Best class I have ever taken, hands down. In my opinion and in my personal belief system, God is what gives us the curiosity, the drive, and the desire to go discover and learn more. He created Man in the sense that he empowers us (me) to seek more out of this world. If he had given us all the answers what fun would that have been. If he didn't exist at all, what drive would there be to do good.

I had a near-death experience in 2008 and was in the ICU. When I woke up, I asked my mom straight faced, why my grandfather had left. He had been dead for 3 years at that point. To this day, even though I have no memories of this or those 2 weeks, I know he was with me. God wasn't with me necessarily, by my grandfather was. He watched over me and made sure I wasn't alone, wherever I was.

There are some doctors explanations out I got that because I was hypoxic my brain may have done "funny" things, but science can't explain this one and the plethora of other stories like it. There is some higher force out there if nothing else to give people hope and a purpose.

These are just my Catholic hair brained opinions and of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[chbare]

However, there have been studies where near death like and out of body experiences have been induced through various neurological/sensory methods. The evidence certainly suggests that the near death experience is a natural set of phenomena that can to varying degrees be reproduced in the lab.

Also, if religion or God creates morality and purpose, how do we explain all of the atheists and agnostics who undeniably lead good, moral lives that have meaning and purpose? Additionally, if you believe in one religion, you have chosen to disbelieve in other religions and/or Gods. Which God is the the real God? Will the real God please stand up? A question to ask regardless of your answer is the following: Does this universe actually need a God, is there any evidence that a God is required?

I appreciate the ongoing dialogue and since people are putting their arses out there to discuss such a divisive topic, I thought I should share something that I have never shared in public as far as I can remember. When I was a child, I developed a serious pneumonia and collapsed at home in the bathroom. I was very sick, had very high fever and was hypoxic. I do not remember the entire ordeal and hospitalization all that well, but I clearly remember passing out through my head and found myself floating above my body on the floor of the bathroom. It was a vivid experience for sure; however, is it wrong for me to apply logic to that situation, to look at the evidence and conclude the experience was well rooted in the natural world and simply an experience or an interpretation of an experience, in other words, just brain chemistry?

[cscboulder11]

I've never believed in God. I went to church, attended Sunday school, and read the Bible growing up, but I just couldn't believe in the Bible like that. It left me with far too many questions and nowhere near enough answers. I always appreciated science for that reason since it had plausible theories when it didn't have answers. Whenever I asked questions of a priest, they were never able to answer them. I also have a condition that will be with me for the rest of my life, and for that to be part of "God's plan" just seems cruel. I don't know what happens after death and I don't think anyone can say for sure until they leave for good.

Regarding near death experiences, I don't know what to think. There's lots of reports, but they vary so wildly, which just cements my belief that everyone has to experience those final moments for themselves.