Searching Patients personal belongings

[mikeymedic1984]

Lets put everything in perspective. You have about a billion chances greater potential of getting killed in a vehicle accident on the way to this call. There is no reason to keep the belongings with the patient, you have external truck compartments, and you can always put bags up in the cab. Terrorist typically want to kill lots of people, the chances of them targeting one ambulance is pretty remote. Good question, but you really dont have the right to search and seizure as a medic in most states.

[Mateo_1387]

Thats easy: your bag stays right where it is and your on the way to the hospital without it, or you can refuse treatment & transport and we will complete a refusal against our advice.

I'm not risking my life or the life of my crew for anything. you called 911 for our assistance. You play by our rules or no bus ticket !

I have found handguns & knives while doing a "Trauma search" head to toe assessment. Little old lady with a ladysmith tucked in the pocket of her bathrobe, loaded and ready to fire. It was removed and handed over to a deputy at the hospital.

Yah, I hear ya. Out of curiosity, do you have a policy on the standard practice of searching patient's belongings? Also, is it truly permissible to refuse to transport someone because they don't want you rummaging through their personal belongings, and then make them fill out a refusal of medical care, when in fact it was the patient's refusal for you to search the bag? Especially, when you may not have a reason to suspect something is in the bag, but search just because there is a bag? I ponder the legality of searching someones bag as a standard practice in an ambulance. Anyone familiar with such things, legally speaking?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Actually, I think that Mikey is right, but if you ask the patient if you can look in their bag or package for "your safety" most patients will usually say "sure" but the ones who refuse I will then say "I need to put the bag in a safe place" because I don't want it becoming a missile or projectile during transport if we get in a wreck. Most patients will be like "sure, no problem"

I've never had a patient refuse to go with me because I wouldn't let them keep their package or bag in their hands durning transport. I would sometimes say "it's our policy to secure all patient belongings in a compartment" or some drivel like that.

And if the patient adamantly refuses to let me search the bag then I'm not going to force the search, Mateo is right, I really don't have any right to search their bags.

And to be on the side of this argument, We don't really have any right to search a patient's body either if you want to go down that road even if it's for our own safety. We can have law enforcement do it but how many here are truly trained in the handling of loaded weapons?

I had a situation one night where we were on a very minor auto accident, we were the only ones on scene at the moment, and we were trying to get the patient out of the car. I was trying to get him out onto the backboard and grabbed his belt and his pocket at the same time and he hit me. I told him not to to hit me again. I then grabbed his belt again and he reached in to his pocket and pulled out a hand gun and pointed it at me and my partner. To say that we shit a brick was a understatement. We ran away leaving the patient and all our equipment and jumped in the ambulance and left the scene radioing in the particulars. Minutes later many police officers showed up and it was all over. Patient gave up the gun and we transported without incident. Patient apologized but apology was not accepted. I can tell you I would not have known how to dispose of the loaded gun. So I from then on out have always had law enforcement search the patient if needed.

[croaker260]

Searching the bas of certain people has long been practice here. The detailand depth may vary, but I agree with the previous poster that the the best "search" is asking, and seeing their response. If they get himky about it, there isusually a reason why.

[Chief1C]

I suppose you could ask permission to search the bag, and if they refuse; either call PD; or refuse to take it along. If that's a problem. TAXI! (the ones that don't have red lights)

[DwayneEMTP]

Of course I'm not a lawyer, but I see no legal issues with searching if you're doing it for personal safety.

We're not, or at least shouldn't be gathering "evidence" just checking to make sure that we'll be safe.

I've searched every patient that's been even slightly hinky without permission. Most never question it, and if they do I explain why I chose to do so. None of my unaltered patients have ever been offended, and those that were were normally confusing me with something in their delusion or halucination.

The bag, if going to be allowed within their reach while in my care is an extension of them, in my opinion, and I'm going to take a peek. I, again, have never had an issue with this, but my experience in the States is pretty shallow...