In need of some EMS family advice.

[Bieber]

this.

and the union bashing on this site if incredible. I guess people like min. wage. Fire based, single role paramedicine is the way to go. You have the resources (union) and the respect to get it done. Or any public servant position---be it county etc.

Yeah, what Mike said: the IAFF is terrible for EMS as is the fire service in general. Fire has no more place in the business than a dual-role plumber/RN.

Oh, and I don't have anything specific against unions, just the IAFF.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Bieber

[Just Plain Ruff]

Can someone please explain why EMS-ers are so interested in "bridge" programs?

probably already been answered but it goes back to the zero to hero mentality we have in EMS. Why do it the hard way when you can actually do it the easy way and these programs make it easy for medics to go to RN school even though like someone already said, they have not heard many good things about medic to rn bridge.

But that's just my humble opinion.

The pay and schedules for an RN are much better in the majority of the U,S,

However you will find that an ADN will only go so far in the hospital genre. Many systems are requiring a BSN as an entry level.

The IAff is only interested in saving union jobs , so that the union bosses can keep their multimillion $$$ salaries and multi-million $$$ homes in exclusive neighborhoods hiding behind gated security apes.

How much did your union pay shittburger to be a figurehead last year?

What did you get as a benefit from him buying votes?

You got to keep your job for the time being.

Until the next budget cuts come along

let's leave the union bashin out of this until the unions can come in and give us explanation as to what they truly do for EMS. I have never seen a union boss or rep come on here to defend their practices which I can only surmise that what is being said about them, it tacitly true.

[Arctickat]

making 9.63/hour while going to school full time and learning you have a child on the way is a tad bit of a rough road,

And why are you making $9.63/hr? Why sell yourself so cheaply? 13 years ago a basic starting wage was $9.25 up here, medics just over 12 bucks. Then the changes started, today basics start at $25.41/hr and medics $30.80/hr. We are a self regulated profession yet there is still a long ways to go. 13 years, what can you change to improve your profession in 13 years if you chose to stay and fight for it rather than abandon it?

[Bieber]

probably already been answered but it goes back to the zero to hero mentality we have in EMS. Why do it the hard way when you can actually do it the easy way and these programs make it easy for medics to go to RN school even though like someone already said, they have not heard many good things about medic to rn bridge.

But that's just my humble opinion.

What's wrong with the bridge program? I mean, we don't really think that a medic needs to start from scratch with an RN program, do we?

[Just Plain Ruff]

What's wrong with the bridge program? I mean, we don't really think that a medic needs to start from scratch with an RN program, do we?

Actually I think that you do need to start from Scratch unless you have taken A&P and the pre-req classes that we have all argued till we are blue in the face. Do you think that a medic in the field for 10 years should be able to bridge without those classes?

Here's the link to a paramedic to RN bridge program pre-reqs. Unless the student has what is listed, then they should have to get those completed prior to entering the bridge program. http://www.ccbcmd.edu/nursing/Prerequisite_-_PMtoRN.html

More info - http://catalog.ccbcmd.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=1&poid=237&hl=Paramedic+Transition+Course&returnto=search

Maybe we are thinking the same thing but articulating it differently.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Captain ToHellWithItAll

[chbare]

Why start from scratch? What does the evidence say about medics who make the transition traditionally versus a hybrid or bridge programme? I will be honest and say I'm not sure. My decision would be based on the literature. Do these "bridge" nurses have comparable NCLEX pass rates, how about making the transition into practice and obtaining employment? In addition, what about rates of errors and overall long term job performance? I simply cannot definitively say with any degree of confidence beyond anecdote.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Why start from scratch? What does the evidence say about medics who make the transition traditionally versus a hybrid or bridge programme? I will be honest and say I'm not sure. My decision would be based on the literature. Do these "bridge" nurses have comparable NCLEX pass rates, how about making the transition into practice and obtaining employment? In addition, what about rates of errors and overall long term job performance? I simply cannot definitively say with any degree of confidence beyond anecdote.

Absolutely correct Chris, the evidence is anectdotal at best. What would be a landmark study for EMS to RN bridge programs would be a cross sectional study of all that you mentioned. I've been told by numerous nurses (all were traditional RN trained) that many have worked with paramedics gone RN via bridge programs and their competency was somewhat questioned by many of those nurses.

I have even talked to nurses who did the bridge program from paramedic and several of them have said that if they had it to do all over again they would not have chosen the bridge route.

Again, it's what you get into it and how you apply yourself to the courses that is what makes or breaks the person and their education/competency.

The cross section of nurses I've talked to have been from across the country during my work in implementing electronic medical record systems.

[chbare]

My experiences differ from yours. Unfortunately, anecdote is not particularly effective when making any big picture sort of assessment or decision.

[Bieber]

Actually I think that you do need to start from Scratch unless you have taken A&P and the pre-req classes that we have all argued till we are blue in the face. Do you think that a medic in the field for 10 years should be able to bridge without those classes?

Here's the link to a paramedic to RN bridge program pre-reqs. Unless the student has what is listed, then they should have to get those completed prior to entering the bridge program. http://www.ccbcmd.edu/nursing/Prerequisite_-_PMtoRN.html

More info - http://catalog.ccbcmd.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=1&poid=237&hl=Paramedic+Transition+Course&returnto=search

Maybe we are thinking the same thing but articulating it differently.

I think our perspectives are going to differ on this mostly because we already have to take most of the same pre-reqs (including A&P) to get your medic here; I would agree for places without a degree requirement for medics that having those pre-reqs is appropriate and vital to bridging.

Absolutely correct Chris, the evidence is anectdotal at best. What would be a landmark study for EMS to RN bridge programs would be a cross sectional study of all that you mentioned. I've been told by numerous nurses (all were traditional RN trained) that many have worked with paramedics gone RN via bridge programs and their competency was somewhat questioned by many of those nurses.

I have even talked to nurses who did the bridge program from paramedic and several of them have said that if they had it to do all over again they would not have chosen the bridge route.

Again, it's what you get into it and how you apply yourself to the courses that is what makes or breaks the person and their education/competency.

The cross section of nurses I've talked to have been from across the country during my work in implementing electronic medical record systems.

Like you said, anecdote is anecdote. Still, it's interesting for me to hear opinions on medic to RN programs and experiences from people in other parts of the country because everyone I've ever spoken to here who has gotten their RN has basically the complete opposite opinion of it in terms of difficulty, educational value, etc regardless of whether it was the bridge format or traditional route.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Bieber

[Just Plain Ruff]

My thoughts after writing what I wrote is were most of these opinions coming from RN's who did the traditional way of things and not many came from the bridge nurses because those are few and far between in certain areas.

What I do know is that those medics who are relatively new and had the pre-req's are primed to do the bridge program while the medics who have not had the pre-req's (read old dog medics) who want to become RNs due to certain circumstances, they have a much harder time getting the RN thing down, I would think.

My thoughts of the bias against bridge medics is the opinion of many Traditional RN's (at least those I talked to) that bridging is the easy way out and those who did just that are somewhat less of nurses?

I like Chris's response as he's heard the opposite or his experiences differ.

I do have to say that every medic I've worked with who has become a nurse through either the bridge program or traditional route is a damn fine nurse.

So in essence you do not need to start from scratch but you need to evaluate what each medic has in their educational battery. IF they don't have the basics and are going to a program that doesn't require those basics(hopefully none do this any more but maybe excelsior does not sure), then they are going to struggle and find that maybe a A&P class and additonal courses are warranted.

Again, anecdote is anecdote, it's all in how you use and apply it.