Just a newbie.

[Devaloines1]

Hi everyone! my name is Lindsay and new here, obviously. I had some questions I was hoping some of you could help with.

I have a pretty strong interest in joining the EMS field. I already volunteer as a firefighter with my local department and watched the EMT's always come and go. I'd listen to them over my radio at the station and thought it'd be neat to try it out. My chief directed me to take an EMR course before I actually put my money into a EMT-B course to see if I like it and then he'd put me on a run skeleton with the EMT's if I passed the EMR class and got my cards. I was able to third wing on the ambulance a couple days ago and I really enjoyed it. I did basic things such as taking vitals, stabilizing patients, and helped with the patient history.

Now I am at the spot looking at taking the EMT-B course, this is where I am stuck at. I have seen a bachelors degree that offers a major in health sciences with a paramedic training course which allows you to become a paramedic after finishing. I know a paramedic school around me offers an associates degree in paramedic studies then allows you take the national registry examination, which is required in my state. Some of the degree's prerequisites is that you must be a current EMT and be at least the age of eighteen or older. The bachelors degree does not have either of those prerequisites. I am turning seventeen in July so I am pretty far from being able to take the associates degree. I figured that if I sign up for the bachelors degree I can start my paramedic training earlier than the associates degree, save money from doing the EMT-B course, and be more sellable to employers looking for paramedics because of the extra time of training. Do you think this is a okay path to go? Or do you think the bachelors degree will require you to be 18 to study and be a EMT? As I said it didn't say anything about being 18 or having to be an EMT. Has anyone been through a bachelors degree? A paramedic tech near me said not to do it because all it is after awhile is repetitive curriculum stretched long enough to the point where they can charge you more. When I look at the curriculum it just looks like it digs deep into and all over health sciences which I think would help. I have been debating with myself it may just be smart to take the EMT-B anyways to start with. All advice would be accepted.

Question two is about controlling bleeding. In my EMR class we were taught as EMR's we can not use hemostatic gauze or hemostatic granules. Yet you can buy them online everywhere because regular people can use them as first aid care. I also learned if patients need help with medications or whatever that I can't administer myself, but they can take voluntarily with my help is allowed. So if I have hemostatic gauze and they are bleeding bad do you think I would be allowed if I ask to put it on and they say yes I can "help" by putting it on? Wouldn't it sort of be the same thing?

Anyways, thanks in advance!

[paramedicmike]

Welcome.

Does the bachelor's program offer EMT as part of the curriculum? This may be why it's not required as a prerequisite.

In the end, a bachelor's degree is going to help you more than an associate's or certificate program will. I strongly encourage you to do further research into the bachelor's program and pursue that option as you continue your studies. Sure. Some of the material may be stretched to fill time. It may even be repeated. Such is the life of a student. The long term benefits of a four year degree, however, go much deeper and far beyond what you'd get in a shorter program.

If, while acting as an EMR, you're applying the hemostatic agent you're not helping. You're doing something you shouldn't be doing according to your scope of practice.

Keep us posted on what path you decide to take.

[MariB]

As an emt, a patient can buy tylenol , but I can't help them with that tylenol.

Does that make any sense?

As for your first question . The bachelors degree is going to take you 4 years. The associates 2 years. In the end, which degree do you want? Of course a BA is better. Hace you considered a BSN in nursing?

[Devaloines1]

Welcome.

Does the bachelor's program offer EMT as part of the curriculum? This may be why it's not required as a prerequisite.

In the end, a bachelor's degree is going to help you more than an associate's or certificate program will. I strongly encourage you to do further research into the bachelor's program and pursue that option as you continue your studies. Sure. Some of the material may be stretched to fill time. It may even be repeated. Such is the life of a student. The long term benefits of a four year degree, however, go much deeper and far beyond what you'd get in a shorter program.

If, while acting as an EMR, you're applying the hemostatic agent you're not helping. You're doing something you shouldn't be doing according to your scope of practice.

Keep us posted on what path you decide to take.

I was able to talk to the director of the paramedic program through email. He said the first two years of the bachelors degree is the traditional two year associates paramedic degree. He said after you finish the first two years you take your national registry, and then can start working as a paramedic. After you finish your national registry you continue to talk classes to obtain credits towards your bachelors degree - and this is all health sciences like how the body works and what not. He said you do not need to be an EMT entering into the program, but you get extra credits coming in as one. He did not say anything about age. I am guessing you probably have to be 18 by the time you start getting your field experience. I am going to ask them that.

I may do that, so then I would have a bachelors degree in case if in the future I wish to continue my education on to something else in the health care world.

I was just wondering about the hemostatic agent because anyone can buy it and use it. As an EMR I can't help someone with it, but not as an EMR I can help someone with it if they request it, just like if I were a bystander. Is the bystander option ever optional? or with the EMR card you are stuck as an EMR and you have to follow EMR protocol until your card expires? It's not like I will be in a situation by myself where a patient is hemorrhaging so much that he or she needs a hemostatic agent anyway. It's just out of curiosity.

As an emt, a patient can buy tylenol , but I can't help them with that tylenol.

Does that make any sense?

As for your first question . The bachelors degree is going to take you 4 years. The associates 2 years. In the end, which degree do you want? Of course a BA is better. Hace you considered a BSN in nursing?

But is there ever a time where you can have a "time out" of being an EMT, and just act as a bystander to help them with whatever? As an EMR I am allowed to open a medication bottle, hold a cup or straw and whatever the patient needs. I just can't shove it down their mouths for them or make them swallow the medication, I can't also put the medication in their mouths. But if you are in bystander mode, then there is not protocols stopping you from helping them with the medication. That's just what I don't currently understand and find confusing.

I have thought about nursing. My mom is a NP so there was a lot of encouragement to take nursing from my mom. If I were to ever to get my BSN I wouldn't stay as one for long. I would probably advance to a CRNA program after the required years of nursing by the program. I found that working in the ambulance and right at the scene of an emergency is really I sort of want to be. I want to be the first person on the scene to help the patient in the best way possible and be able to transfer them to the advanced proper care they need.

[MariB]

As an EMT, I can't help open a bottle of their meds or anything unless specifically stated in my protocol.

Sure you can as a bystander given you know the patient, you weren't called to them, you aren't treating them.. and you have nothing to do with being a Mr at the time. But then... why would you be assisting them?

If you are opening a medication bottle for them and they are in need of help, that medicine just might not be a good idea at that given time. Don't do it. It isn't worth it and how often does someone have hemostatic dressings laying around? If you go to someone with it, you are intending to treat them. It isn't worth it. If they are bleeding that bad, call an ambulance

And I don't think you can assist in opening med bottles as an EMR. Treatments can change based on what the patient takes. I don't assist in opening med bottles as an EMT for patients I'm treating.

I spike iv bags, I hand my paramedic her bag and open it, but I don't open bottles for patients unless it is: their own nitro, oral glucose, activated charcoal, aspirin or a bottle of water and I even ask my medic or call MD for water if we are a ways out and they are insisting. We are paramedic conditional, sometimes a paramedic is there, sometimes not. If a ride will be a while and patient is thirsty, I won't hesitate to call for water and 9 times out of ten I would be told no. Except in cases if transfers with surgery in the morning.

Edited May 21, 2013 by MariB

[Devaloines1]

As an EMT, I can't help open a bottle of their meds or anything unless specifically stated in my protocol.

Sure you can as a bystander given you know the patient, you weren't called to them, you aren't treating them.. and you have nothing to do with being a Mr at the time. But then... why would you be assisting them?

If you are opening a medication bottle for them and they are in need of help, that medicine just might not be a good idea at that given time. Don't do it. It isn't worth it and how often does someone have hemostatic dressings laying around? If you go to someone with it, you are intending to treat them. It isn't worth it. If they are bleeding that bad, call an ambulance

And I don't think you can assist in opening med bottles as an EMR. Treatments can change based on what the patient takes. I don't assist in opening med bottles as an EMT for patients I'm treating.

I spike iv bags, I hand my paramedic her bag and open it, but I don't open bottles for patients unless it is: their own nitro, oral glucose, activated charcoal, aspirin or a bottle of water and I even ask my medic or call MD for water if we are a ways out and they are insisting. We are paramedic conditional, sometimes a paramedic is there, sometimes not. If a ride will be a while and patient is thirsty, I won't hesitate to call for water and 9 times out of ten I would be told no. Except in cases if transfers with surgery in the morning.

Now I understand. When you are on the call that you were called to, you have to follow the EMR protocols.

Also I was taught I can open medication bottles for the things you listed, except for the activated charcoal. The only one that can help give charcoal is the EMT. No where in my notes did I learn that I need to call med control for aspirin or a bottle of water. I did put down I need to verify with med control if oral glucose, or any other medications are okay for them to take. If I am not allowed to do it then I must of surprisingly missed the instructor saying so.

Good thing I am working around peers with more education than I haha.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Deva, my advice is to go ahead and go to EMT school. It's obvious you want to go and do more so why not bite the bullet and do it.

If you aren't 18 yet which I read I think somewhere in this thread that you were not, there is nothing keeping you from taking the class unless the education entity says you cannot take the course. You may not be able to get a license or work as an EMT at your age yet but there are places out there who do let younger people work but with quite a bit of supervision. Plus you could do it for "FREE" and get the experience as a 3rd person and then when you turn 18 you can apply for EMT jobs.

Just remember, at 18 you may not be insurable (drivers) for a vast majority of agencies out there so be cognizant of that.

The class is just a summer long and you are heading into summer so what a story you would have to tell your friends in the "What I did this summer" vein.

Good luck whatever you do.

And if you are dying of a strange cardiac disease, I'll never talk to you again (EMTCity inside joke)

Edited May 21, 2013 by Captain ToHellWithItAll

[MariB]

Now I understand. When you are on the call that you were called to, you have to follow the EMR protocols.

Also I was taught I can open medication bottles for the things you listed, except for the activated charcoal. The only one that can help give charcoal is the EMT. No where in my notes did I learn that I need to call med control for aspirin or a bottle of water. I did put down I need to verify with med control if oral glucose, or any other medications are okay for them to take. If I am not allowed to do it then I must of surprisingly missed the instructor saying so.

Good thing I am working around peers with more education than I haha.

I am not all that familiar with EMR protocols.

I have standing orders for NITRO x 3. Oral glucose, aspirin epi pens etc.

Whether I am on call or not, if I am intending to treat someone as an EMT, I have to act within my scope of practice.

I call for water just for obvious reasons. Does MD want pt to be npo?.

I also want to mention, in your education, how old will you be when you get out of highschool? Both programs you are looking at are post high school studies. I know you want to hurry in to them but you have highschool first and most degree programs start in the fall after highschool.