What would you do?

[medicgirl05]

I was at a party this past weekend where some people were playing Chubby Bunny. In case you aren't familiar this game is played by stuffing a marshmallow in a players mouth and the player not being able to chew and saying "chubby bunny." The game continues by increasing the number of marshmallows until there is only one player left. At this particular party the winner stuffed 15 in his mouth and won. Participants usually end up losing their marshmallows and then some, however I thought it was a ridiculous game due to the risk of choking...so...

I was telling my fellow coworkers about this stupid game, and we started talking about what would have happened if someone had choked. They insisted that I would have been obligated to eventually perform a tracheotomy, as the heimlich wouldn't dislodge the sticky marshmallows. I argued that I was not on duty, had been drinking, and was not even in my service area. They then said I could call my medical director and get authorization, which I don't think would happen either. The location of the party had at least a 15 minute response time for the responding EMS agency. My coworkers think I'd lose my paramedic cert if I didn't do anything, but I'd also lose it if I did try to help after I'd been drinking.

So my question is, what would you do?

[paramedicmike]

I was at a party this past weekend where some people were playing Chubby Bunny. In case you aren't familiar this game is played by stuffing a marshmallow in a players mouth and the player not being able to chew and saying "chubby bunny." The game continues by increasing the number of marshmallows until there is only one player left. At this particular party the winner stuffed 15 in his mouth and won. Participants usually end up losing their marshmallows and then some, however I thought it was a ridiculous game due to the risk of choking...so...

What a stupid game.

I argued that I was not on duty, had been drinking...

Stop right there. Enough said. Try to explain why you attempted a surgical airway on someone while off duty and with alcohol in your system. I agree with you that you stand a greater risk from that more than you would from not attempting one.

What can you do? Should the choking happen call 911. We can't be on all the time. We certainly can't be on with alcohol in our system.

[island emt]

agreed. You would stand a greater risk of liability if you did act in an off duty out of town and ETOH in your system. Possibly face manslaughter charges if the choking victim died whether it was your fault or not.

You need to find smarter friends to hang with.

[Just Plain Ruff]

What the hell is going on here? We have a member who may or may have not been busted for DWI, we have a smart smart member playing a drinking game that may or may result in choking.

Has all common sense left this younger generation?

But back to the thread.

Heres' what I was told by a very reputable EMS Attorney in a lecture in our class. If you want to continue drinking and working in EMS as your primary profession, DO NOT EVER perform your ems skills while drunk. If you do then your ass will be handed to the defense team and you will LOSE the case if there is a lawsuit brought against you. If you kill someone then you can plan on spending time in a 8x8 foot cell next to Bubba.

You could also face a minimum of the loss of your license, home, car, wife, kids, dog and cat as well as anything else you hold dear when you get your ass sued and lose because you were drinking and chose to perform some heroic feat of EMS magnitude and it be done wrong because you are too drunk to do it right.

[ERDoc]

Best thing to do in any social setting with lots of people where someone may get hurt. Drink a lot. Then you are exempt from having to do anything. On a side note, how were you going to cric(I assume that is what you meant) the guy? MacGyver style with some rubbing alcohol, a steak knife and a ballpoint pen? When you are off duty and especially when you are out of your area of responsibility, your job is to provide first aid and nothing more.

On an second side note, MacGyver is a word in spellcheck. Awesome.

[medicgirl05]

Sorry I meant cric!

We didn't discuss how it would be performed, just that they thought I would be obligated to do so. I wasn't playing the game, nor was I drinking much.

I was on the side that I wouldn't do anything beyond the Heimlich and CPR, but my coworkers disagree. I was looking for other opinions. Thanks.

[triemal04]

Out of curiosity, are your fellow coworkers paramedics? EMT's? Volunteer? Paid? Very, very new to the job?

Just wondering, since, depending on your answer, you either have a lot of work cut out for you, or you need to haul ass for a different place to work...

[paramedicmike]

/>

Just wondering, since, depending on your answer, you either have a lot of work cut out for you, or you need to haul ass for a different place to work...

I will admit to thinking the same thing about where you're working...

[uglyEMT]

I agree.

Booze = I become a civilian.

Beyond a Heimlich or CPR I wouldn't be doing much if anything. As ERDoc stated, if I am out of my service area or area of responsibilities I keep it to call 911 and apply simple first aid.

Your partners seem to be of the kind that want the world to know they are medics any chance they get even if it means doing so while under the influence. THAT is a bad combo that can be disasterous to both them and the victim. I do want to state I dont believe they would do this while on duty just that in the off duty times they don't shut it off.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Sorry I meant cric!

We didn't discuss how it would be performed, just that they thought I would be obligated to do so. I wasn't playing the game, nor was I drinking much.

I was on the side that I wouldn't do anything beyond the Heimlich and CPR, but my coworkers disagree. I was looking for other opinions. Thanks.

When you drink I believe you automagically forfeit your ability and your responsibility to perform your skills. The risk to the person you are performing them on is too great. Sure, CPR is ingrained in our heads and we could probably do CPR on someone even after shooting up with heroin and meth and then a shot of coke but that's for a different discussion. But any other skill which you are privy to know should pretty much be conveniently forgotten as the liability is too great.

There's a reason why doctors aren't supposed to be doctors while drunk, nurses aren't supposed to be nurses while drunk and even dentists and veterinarians are not supposed to do their skills while drunk.

Why do your partners think that just because they are "Medics" that they should be allowed to do a cric or whatever else they are advocating.

In the new superman, Clark Kent's dad is terrified of having Clark being found out by the world. He tells Clark, that sometimes you have to step back and allow things to happen and the results of letting those things happen are horrible. Clark says "Even letting someone die" and his dad says "yes".

This comes back and hit's Clark pretty hard later in the movie. This is one situation where I think that if drinking you would just have to call 911 and let things happen. A terrible choice and dilemma to be in but you know, Clarks Dad was pretty much right on in your case.